X-Message-Number: 10068
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:46:45 -0400
From: Paul Wakfer <>
Subject: Cryonicist/Cryobiologist Rift
References: <>

> Message #10066
> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:56:07 -0400
> From: Thomas Donaldson <>
> Subject: reply to Cryonet #10059-#10065
> I generally dislike arguments about definitions. They
> don't really advance our thinking, they just take up valuable time. It seems
> to me that much of the discussion between Bob and Paul Wakfer is just that,
> and I hope it does not continue.

Although I hope so too, this discussion has *not* been about
definitions, but about the fundamentally incorrect approach which
cryonics leaders have taken in their dealings with scientists,
especially cryobiologists. I believe that the rift with
medical/biological scientists need not and should not have occured. The
result of that rift has been almost 30 years of stagnation in cryonics
related science research which is finally coming to an end because of
activities initiated during the last few years. However, there is still
enormous reactionary pressure within the cryonics community to continue
the rift in thinking and talking which has cost us so dearly.

> It looks to this observer that both  Bob Ettinger and Paul Wakfer agree,
> but do not want to admit their agreement.

That you view it that way is unfortunate, since it implies that you (and
many others too, I suspect) have missed the main point of the dispute
which I stated clearly in one of my earlier posts:

"It is never wise to start off ones arguments but rejecting and
distorting the language of those who one is addressing" and hoping to

It is *we* that need the help of the medical/biological science
community. *They* do not need us (or at least they don't think they do).

Since I became active in cryonics, it has been my goal to achieve
rapproachment of cryonicists with cryobiologists and others in the
medical/biological science community. This can only be achieved through
a willingness to be considerate of their thinking about science without
compromising our basic ideas. To the extent that we will not and do not
do this, we continue the rift which I believe may well destroy us all.

-- Paul --

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