X-Message-Number: 10154 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:59:16 -0400 From: Paul Wakfer <> Subject: Re: CryoNet #10144 - Supporting cryonics research References: <> > Message #10144 > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:19:09 -0700 > From: Richard Gillmann <> > Subject: Supporting cryonics research > > I'd like to support cryonics research in a modest way > financially, and so I've been doing a little research > about organizations I might support. This sounds very wise to me. I wish there were more like you. > Mostly I have used the web and Cryonics magazine as my > sources. I thought I'd share what I've found with the > cryonet list and maybe get some feedback if I've gotten > some stuff wrong, or left something out. > > My personal criteria for choosing an organization are: > > 1. Should be a registered charity (a non-profit corporation > with 501(c)(3) status with the Internal Revenue Service) - > so I can write my donation off on my taxes. Just for your information, there are other types of entities which can have tax charitable status. Trusts and churches are two such. In fact, churches have tax charitable status without registration and can not be required to register. > I can imagine other possibilities, such as a stock > offering in a for-profit corporation, Until the for-profit goes public, such offerings always have limitations on the number of "unqualified" shareholders and, thus, generally a substantial minimum investment. On the other hand, such an investment has greater long term potential income than a mere one-time reduction of taxable income, albeit that it can also be entirely lost. > but the 501(c)(3) thing seems the most likely situation. > Most charities are listed on the Guidestar web site at > http://www.guidestar.org but not all - Guidestar is often > incomplete or out of date. > > 2. Should conduct research on a scientific basis. Since > cryonics is controversial, most scientists are going to stay > away for fear of becoming controversial themselves, and then > losing their grants from the government or corporations. So > it's going to take some brave souls - maybe tenure or personal > wealth may excempt them from the usual need for caution. Either bravery or excellent working conditions to attract them and enough money over a long enough time period that they are insulated and independent of the controversy and potential grant loss status (this is what 21st Century Medicine is providing). > I can understand that they might wish to remain anonymous, But one should always insist on knowing who and where, before becoming a financial supporter. > but I'd still like to read the report when the research is done. In this respect, you should have no concern. Everyone wishes to fully publish their research, though this is sometimes delayed by the patenting process. As a financial supporter you should also be entitled to (and should demand) progress reports, at least yearly. > 3. Should not involve needless animal cruelty. > I've been appalled by reports of experiments where > live mammals are tossed into liguid nitrogen. I think this is a baseless smear, fabricated by the animal rights extremists. I am fairly certain that no one in cryonics has ever done such "experiments", if for no other reason than that there would be absolutely nothing to be gained by doing them. Even so, what people don't realize is that unconsciousness would be practically instantaneous (from total replacement of blood oxygen by inhaled nitrogen gas). I have never even heard of such a thing! I would appreciate information on where you did. > Cryonics is controversial enough as it is without adding > animal cruelty to the mix. I am in total agreement and so are all the people related to cryonics who are doing animal research. I can attest to the fact that at 21CM research animals are treated *more* humanely than are many pets by many vets. Specifically, 21CM research animals are painlessly anesthetized and are fully medicated for pain during any intensive care period (something which is often not done by vets). However, I must also add that these idea of animal cruelty are generally *imaginings and emotions completely devoid of facts*. > In our primitive state of understanding, there are plenty > of experiments to be done on tissue samples from dead animals. This true, but don't forget even there the animal must be healthy and specifically *killed* for the purpose. (We can't just wait for them to die naturally, or use a road kill!) Wouldn't you rather do an experiment using a live animal which has, at least, a *chance* to recover and live more life (usually then being given a great deal of loving attention)? > We need to first learn how to freeze/thaw cells > so that there is no apparent damage. This may be true or not true depending on many factors. I believe that the optimal method of procedure should be left up to the scientists involved so long as humane methods are used. Don't forget that most research animals would not be alive to enjoy life at all if they were not destined for research. > OK so what research organizations are there to consider? > Here's what I've found: > > A. Alcor (http://www.alcor.org) research. It's not clear > from their web site and literature what if any research is > under way here. They talk about what's been done in the past, > some of which was excellent. Much of it was done by people who are no longer with Alcor. > They are a 501(c)(3) and listed in Guidestar. Does part of > each suspension fee go to research (seems like it should)? It has been obvious to me for some time that rather than being optional, there should be a large mandatory portion of each suspension fee directed to research. The proposal which I have made to a Taiwanese marketing group would charge them $160,000 for each whole body suspension with $25,000 going directly to suspended animation research. > Can a donation to the organization be earmarked for research only? > > B. Cyronics Institute (http://www.cryonics.org) research. > Again, they talk about what's been done in the past. Not > clear if any current research is going on, and on what basis. > > C. The Prometheus Project (http://www.prometheus-project.org). > Web site is very impressive - they claim over $4 million in > pledges over ten years, and have a long list of donors. The key word here is "pledges" and the list is of "pledgers". Prometheus has never received any "donations" and was never intended to received any. As Brain Wowk has described it, Prometheus was a "rallying cry", for serious research to perfect suspended animation. And IT WORKED!! Serious research *is* now being done to perfect suspended animation. > But the legal structure is murky with some mixture of a > charitable trust and a for-profit corporation. This is because Prometheus *has* no legal structure and was never intended to have any. Originally, it was intended that some legal entities would be formed to carry out the goals of Prometheus only after the full $1 million per year for ten years was pledged. Later, it was realized that this would not happen unless a pilot project was begun with much smaller funding to gain credibility for the larger effort. The "murkiness" that you refer to was because the original plan for the legal entity was a for-profit corporation, even though many pledgers wished to have a tax deduction and the sheer number of investors would make a for-profit implementation very difficult and costly (re SEC regulations). When an existing for-profit corporation (21CM) also decided to seriously pursue research to perfect suspended animation, the need for the Prometheus implementation to be for-profit was reduced. A perfectly valid legal structure was then proposed which would be both charitable and allow a modicum of value return in the long run. Because of its non-standard nature, this legal structure was not understood and was rejected by the pledgers. The registration of the charitable portion of that structure (The Full Length Life Society) is still in progress, but no pledgers are in any way bound to support it. > I can't find them in Guidestar. As yet no registered charitable organization exists which is related directly to Prometheus. > And the web site hasn't been updated since last year. Because Prometheus, as such, has not changed since last year. Perhaps I should at least make the date current to show that it *is* up to date. Thanks for calling this to my attention. > And Saul Kent writes in the latest Cryonics magazine > that INC "has taken over what was formerly known as > the Prometheus Project"! So what happened? I haven't seen the latest _Cryonics_. I don't know where my copy has gotten to. However, the statement in quotes is incorrect or misleading, at best. The Hippocampal Slice Cryopreservation Project (HSCP) which INC is preparing to conduct in partnership with a research institute affiliated with a major Southern California university medical center is derived directly from the ideas and plans of the Prometheus Project. In essence, INC is the vehicle which is executing the Prometheus Pilot Project. To the extent to which this pilot project is successful and other ideas bear fruit, it may be useful and possible to "reawaken" the currently "sleeping" Prometheus, only time will tell. In theory, the Prometheus web site should be updated to state this clearly. However, in practice, we wish to keep INC completely divorced from cryonics and, in truth, the success of HSCP will be of great value for neuroscience research as well as medical disease research and treatment. Thus, the scientific and practical value of HSCP stands alone with no need for any cryonics connection (except for ease of funding). [Parenthetical "grouch": Why cannot people understand that this is *not* an intellectually and psychologically *free* world? and that often, no matter how honest and open we wise to be, things *must* be left murky, unconnected, and unspecified in order for certain highly ethical and very beneficial results to be achieved.] > D. INC - The Institute for Neural Cryobiology (http://neurocryo.org). > This looks the best to me so far. Naturally, I won't argue with your conclusion here. :-) > They are a 501(c)(3) and found in Guidestar, > albeit with an old address in Northern California. Thanks again for letting me know. I didn't even know about Guidestar and will get the address changed immediately. > Their proposed research involves work on samples > of brain tissue, Actually, "slices" of rat hippocampus. "Slices" is a technical term usually specifying a thickness no greater than 2 mm (so that cell metabolism can take place through simple diffusion of nutrients and waste products). In addition these slices are cut parallel to the plane of the majority or axons joining the hippocampal neurons, so that there will be many inter-neuronal connections within each working slice. The goal is to reversibly preserve and regain the full neuronal/axon propagation capabilities intact (to see completely normal operation of these slices after cryopreservation and rewarming). This is quite different than using brain "samples" or "pieces". > conducted at a local university and hospital. The Name of the Institution is available at the web site. It is a research institute which is a charitable organization legally separate from the university. Its research staff comes half from the university medical center and half from hospitals in the surrounding community. I ask everyone to please not state that this institution or INC are in any manner connected with cryonics, which legally and technically they are not. > The board of directors includes a number of well > known cryonics advocates. Actually, all of them are "well known cryonics advocates". Some were "in the closet" and/or using other names for a number of years. > So far then, the best bet looks to be INC. > I'd appreciate any comments from the list > - I'm pretty new to this stuff. Thanks very much, Richard, for your input and analysis. -- Paul -- Voice/Fax: 416-968-6291 Page: 800-805-2870 The Institute for Neural Cryobiology - http://neurocryo.org Perfected cryopreservation of Central Nervous System tissue for neuroscience research and medical repair of brain diseases Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=10154