X-Message-Number: 10187 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:28:30 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: CryoNet #10179 - #10186 Hi everyone! Brian Delaney makes some very good points. There is one point, however, on which I would disagree... though LOGICAL arguments certainly exist in its favor, ultimately we do not make these decisions using logic. That is the issue of pragmatism and the choice of pragmatism. I would say this somewhat differently, so my disagreement might even be thought tangential. But here goes. We are animals living in the world, and come from a long sequence of other animals, the last but us being our parents. We can adopt various attitudes for dealing with the fact that we are alive and must do many things to remain so. And anyone who decides that he will ignore "what works" here is basically lessening his or her probability of survival. (Yes, I am sliding over the issue of what is meant by "works"). But fundamentally evolution has made us do certain things --- those who did not are long gone, and left no traces in our habits or our genes. Yes, there is no LOGICAL argument to do anything because it will help our survival (and note that survival is even more basic than happiness). Given that we are not diaphanous creatures immune from any dangers, any idea or action which helps our survival becomes important. I would go on from here to say that something of the same tenor runs through science itself, and its sister technology. Why does it help our survival as much as it does? Well, that's a deep question. But it has, and to the extent that it can be applied it should be. And I will finish this argument by pointing out that once we accept that we are animals and originate through natural selection, then we are using science to discuss such things as our values --- though this does not mean that our results will conform to all the various Truths that philosophy has produced. I have already discussed my own problems with what Ettinger says, and will not repeat myself. Best and long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson, PhD (for Paul Wakfer :) Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=10187