X-Message-Number: 10222
Subject: Values
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:56:47 -0600

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> But this begs the question, "best chance" of *what*?  If your most
>fundamental goal is to get into a Christian heaven, science and rationality
>do nothing to aid you in that.   If you accept them, they may demonstrate
>to you that your goal is wrong, but in that case, you've then changed your
>values.  The point is that values are not provable or derivable, they are
>intrinsically axiomatic.  Goedel proved that some things are unprovable,
>and, uncomfortable though it may seem to those whose religion is
>rationalism (I fall into this category myself), this seems like an obvious
>result to me.

Values are not axiomatic. In order for something to be axiomatic, you must show 
that any attempt to prove them presupposes them. General human =

values can be derived from your requirements for survival as a human being and 
for your particular requirements for survival and flourishing =
as an individual

Timur Rozenfeld

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