X-Message-Number: 10256
From: "Timur Rozenfeld" <>
Subject: Rationality
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:19:58 -0600

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>>I was simply referring to the statement that values are axiomatic which I

>>disagreed with. As for Christianity, I don't see it as a rational value 
(except maybe for medicinal purposes).

>Who cares whether it's rational or not?  Only rationalists.  It remains a
>value, nonetheless, and a very powerful one.

I care when someone's values affect me directly, otherwise as long as they don't
bother me, I don't care whether their values are irrational =
or not.

>>You would have to present some
>>arguments to show that it is a rational value that aids in the
>>survival/flourishing of one's life.

>No, I don't.  I only have to show that it is a value important to a given
>individual.  Only that individual is in a position to judge whether their
>value set enhances their life or not.  Rationality is only relevant if
>rationality is part of their value set.

We each can make judgements on which values which we choose, however the fact 
that we are human beings and have a common nature suggests that =

certain fundamental values are essential for sustaining and enhancing your life,
whether you choose to accept it or not. Unless you expect to =

live on welfare or get hand-outs your whole life, in any society, reason is a 
fundamental value. One can claim that rationality is irrelevant as =

one can claim that food and sleep are irrelevant, but one can't evade the 
consequences of that irrational "value set".  But a person's choice =
of values is up to them, as you say.

And finally, in one more tilt at the strawman, he states:

>>I agree that goals can be pretty fundamental as you say in the first part of
>>the paragraph. I disagree that you can't show that those values are

>Please point to me an instance in which I have stated that those values
>either are, or need to be, rational.  Rationality is an axiom.  It is not
>the only one.

Values don't need to be rational, but if you value your life and wish to enhance
it, it is in your interest that they be rational. As for =

rationality being an axiom, I don't think so. The virtue of rationality can 
clearly be shown to enhance your life, but I agree that you can't =
even have this conversation at all without accepting the rational approach.

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