X-Message-Number: 10357 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:08:43 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: CryoNet #10348 - #10356 Hi Paul Wakfer! I will send you a bibliography I did on the damage as it was known before cryonicists began their still scanty research. The results are both better and worse than you say. As for internal damage, I believe my discussion included that issue for neurons, the most important cells for us. It is a message of ignorance to refuse to pay attention to what is known about the deterioration which happens when a person dies, and the knowledge about the effects of freezing. I do not and will not claim that they are trivial kinds of damage, but that does not mean that with an advanced enough technology using SOME kind of nanotechnology might not revive those suspended with current methods. The major question in MY mind is exactly that issue of connectivity and hence of memory. If we cannot work out, directly or indirectly, the memory of someone has been suspended then they cannot be revived by any amount of technology. It is exactly the deterioration of neurons which bothers me about suspension. And I will stay with my major contention that the major kind of damage in suspension occurs above the level of cells, as their relations to one another become disrupted by external ice. Certainly we'll have other damage, but that first is the controlling one. Not only that, but when we speak of neurons here, since neurons can have axons or dendrites running all through our brain, that disruption will disrupt the individual neurons (cells), too. Best and long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson PS: Dammit, Paul, the problem is not that SOMEDAY you might be revived, but with the uncertainty of that someday and that revival. Any research we do to improve the process will remove a lot of that uncertainty, even if it comes a bit short of complete reversible suspensions --- though I too think we have a good chance at working out how to do reversible suspensions. And I contributed to your Prometheus project, both financially and otherwise (until it changed its name, for reasons we both know). I can hardly be thought to be complacent about the possibility of revival. Moreover I will continue to keep up my pledge of support for that 10 years. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=10357