X-Message-Number: 10451
From: "den Otter" <>
Subject: Re: Sackcloth and Ashes Cryonics and Other Things
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:22:04 +0200

> Message #10443
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:46:33 +0100
> From:  (John de Rivaz)
> Subject: Re: Sackcloth and Ashes Cryonics
> There has been some recent suggestion that people signed up for cryonics 
> should give up 90% of the luxury in their lives in order to support the 
> movement financially. This suggestion has come from the ranks of the 
> movement, not the leaders, I hasten to say. 
> This approach has been tried and failed with much bigger groups than the 700 
> or so people in the world who are signed up for cryopreservation.

Yes, this is clearly not the right approach. It would be much better if from
those 700-800 people signed up (and from the transhuman community in
general) a group of people that have the time and energy to spare would
focus on making money for the "cause". How this is done is irrelevant, as
long as it's lucrative and doesn't cause more trouble than it's worth. If
successful, this would effectively eliminate the need for "public acceptance";
money is autonomy, and in the case of cryonics autonomy is life. A
rich movement can pretty much do whatever it wants, and is more likely
to attract other rich people, celebrities etc (just look at Scientology).
Money can help you to avoid just about any bureaucratic barriers: just
select the country that best suits your needs and move your "business"
there. If none are acceptable, you just start your own (like the Cuervo
Gold republic). No more peddling cryonics to the dumb masses; if they
don't want it, fine! Their money and acceptance are no longer required.

Money would solve just about *all* the problems that the cryonics movement
faces today: research, legal issues, maintenance, safe storage etc. So,
if we as cryonicists/transhumanists want to seriously improve our
chances of survival, we should be making this our prime concern. Of
course many have demanding jobs, some are doing invaluable
research and some are just plain tired after many years of intensive
activism, but surely there must be at least a couple of dozen people
that have the will and energy to dedicate themselves to making this
movement a prosperous one. A "wealth department", that can focus
the (considerable) mental power of the whole movement at this pressing
issue. A large distributed brain, really. Obviously more effective than 
isolated, random individual attempts. It is feasible, and it certainly is 

In case anyone is interested, there's a mailing list for discussing this
and various other (transhuman) issues. You can join at:
or you can send me an email with "subscribe transtopia" in the 
Btw, on the issue of cryonics providing "false hope" and possible
legal problems: what about religion? Now *there's* a filthy scam!
At least cryonics can offer some *real* hope (and I must say, the
peace of mind it gives you alone is well worth the money).

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