X-Message-Number: 10618
Subject: Re: religion is not the enemy
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:56:25 -0500
From: Will Dye <>

In CryoNet message #10613, "Lea Wagner" <> writes:

> All of you (or rather most) have been complaining about needing to 
> scale the wall of religion. 

I've been on this list for several years now, and I'm confident that 
most of those who post here do NOT believe that religion is the primary 
barrier to greater acceptance.  Certainly the issue gets brought out 
now and then, but it's quickly shot down.  Even among atheist, male, 
white, Californian computer programmers, almost none have signed up 
for cryonics.  To be sure, the issues of death, uploading, etc. will 
bring up religious topics, and hence differences of opinion, but it's 
clear to anyone familiar with the history of cryonics that we have far 
deeper problems than religious opposition.  

Please, Lea, don't embarass yourself by making a statement about "most" 
people, without at least including a hedge phrase such as "it seems 
like", or "I get the impression that".  I'm sure you meant well, but 
I think that it's a good thing for people to be careful about such 
statements, especially when trying to make a good first impression.  

> I would just like to say that I am a devout Christian, and i am 
> fascinated by cryogenics. 

Yeeeha!  Another one!  I'm sure there are more out there, but most 
days it feels like I'm CryoNet's only token fundie.  Welcome!  I 
need the company.  :-)  I usually don't post much, though, even on 
religion.  I just don't have a lot of free time.  

I encourage you to visit Keith's archive of all the old CryoNet 
postings.  On any mailing list, a lot of topics that have already been 
covered will get dredged up months or years later.  The people who 
carefully answered the question the first time around will often lose 
interest in re-answering the same question yet again.  The archives date 
back some ten years now, so a search of them may yield some worthwhile 
information (as well as a lot of noise, but so it goes).  

> I don't belive that in any way, shape, or form that it goes against 
> the Christian beliefs.  

Agreed.  I'm trying to assemble some firmer Biblical evidence for that 
statement, but the aforementioned lack of time is really hampering me.  
I'm currently doing a through-the-Bible reading program trying to get 
a better handle on the idea of the soul.  I've already come to the 
conclusion that the popular imagery (that of a little ghost that floats 
out of you when you die) is not Biblical.  It seems to have more of a 
Greek origin, but I need to study more.  This study is to help me 
with issues like cryonics, uploading & non-organic human forms, and 
the wide range of life forms that will be possible in the wake of the 
development of molecular nanotech.  

> Jesus is not against saving lives by un-natural ways, he did it 
> himself. Therefore no christians should be either. 

Interesting argument; I hadn't thought of that angle.  I don't think 
that it settles the issue definatively, because there's still the 
objection that God's actions always reflect the will of God, but man's 
actions can go one way or the other.  

Still, I like the argument.  I think we should focus less on "natural" 
as an indicator of God's will, and more on compassion, courage, etc.  

> Thanks for your time and space.

Thanks for writing!  Please do keep in touch.  Perhaps we can exchange 
e-mail privately, if we care to discuss a lot of details that may not 
be of interest to the general CryoNet population.  Feel free to write 
me any time.  

--William L. Dye
   William L. Dye             Accountability, thy name is
           "low-cost digital storage".

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