X-Message-Number: 10923 From: Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:52:26 EST Subject: Euro storage, cheesecake Thomas Nord would like to see a cryonics storage facility (or more than one) in Europe. Perhaps one day there will be. But that day is not yet, and not likely soon, and if that is causing someone to delay signing up, the risk is obvious. Further, if I understand it correctly, costs are higher in England and some other countries of Europe, and in some countries legal/cultural impediments are greater. Olaf Henny used cheesecake supply/demand as an example of why money will not disappear. He said that, to get a new variety, you would need to buy it from the purveyor, hire someone to copy it, or buy/lease an AI device or program to copy it. I think that, in this particular example at least, he overlooked a few things. First--at a certain phase of history--each individual is likely to have his own thinking/actuating machine, using air or sea water or soil or recycled waste as raw material. If he has a sample of the cheesecake, his machine can make him all he wants. (I won't go into any possible patent problem.) Second, there is likely to be such a flood of available variations on previously existing goods and satisfactions that unsatisfied demand for any particular one will be near zero. Third, we will have a better understanding of the physiology of satisfaction, and will in many cases, if not in most, be able to create satisfaction directly--by signals in the brain--rather than indirectly, by arranging stimuli to create those signals. (I won't go into the complications or downside of this.) Finally, without any formalized medium of exchange, there always remains the possibility of some form of barter. In many circumstances, barter has overwhelming advantages over money. Money depends on a widely agreed value--on the dependable capability of a unit of money to buy things that are generally used and needed and to hire labor. The point Mr. Smith was making was that in a developed future money will not be needed for any of the routine goods and services, and there will in general be no labor for hire, and therefore money will have lost its value--it is no longer fungible. If "money" has potential usefulness only for trading unique things such as a particular planet or real estate on that planet, then the person accepting the "money" in exchange for the real estate has to figure out what he can do with that "money," and the list may be very short and uncertain. Of course, none of this changes John de Rivaz' point that it still makes sense to save and allocate money, because it will certainly be needed for a good while yet, and might be important for your safety. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=10923