X-Message-Number: 10970 From: "Olaf Henny" <> Subject: Re: Ben Bova's Book Immortality Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:56:47 -0800 There have been some comments on sci.life-extension about Ben Bova's book, Immortality. Unfortunately I cannot reach these comments any longer, but my admittedly unreliable memory tells me, that these comments were largely based on second hand information obtained from others, who had read the book. The comments were dismissive and would have kept me from bothering to read the book, had I not ordered it already at the time. I have now finished reading it and am glad I did so. Some of the criticism, which has been leveled Against Ben Bova's Immortality was, that he did not supply references to the pertinent research, which backs up his statements. The fact of the matter is, that Mr. Bova did not write this work as a scientists for other scientists to assist them in their research, but he wrote it as a journalist, with a lifetime interest in science for *me*, the layman who is interested in saving his own mortal butt and accordingly welcomes the comprehensive overview of life extension prospects, which Ben Bova offers in his book.. Of course Mr. Bova puts his own stamp of personal biases into his book, as to which avenues of life prolonging measures he considers the most promising. Some examples being, that he attributes considerable weight to genetic manipulation and describes the interaction of telomeres peritelomeric genes and telomerase, accepts completely the claims of rejuvenating effects of HGH, but dismisses DHEA, which is known to raise the level of IGF-1 at least to some degree, almost completely. He doesn't even bother to mention the litany of the anti-DHEA crowd about cirrhosis and cancer of the liver which happened to those poor, severely overdosed rats, or cancer of the prostate. He dismisses melatonin as a fad of 1995, does not mention the antioxidant properties of the hormone (he appreciates those of Vitamins A, C and E though), and disputes its sleep inducing effects. "Virtually all of the evidence cited in favor of melatonin has been anecdotal". He also gives CR short shrift. He appears to side with scientist, who hold the following view as cited by Bova: "Some researchers believe that the life-extending effects of restricting lab rodent's food intake is not so remarkable after all. They point out that rats and mice fed al lib' (apostrophes are mine instead of italics) are the lab rodent equivalent of couch potatoes. They eat too much and exercise too little. A restricted diet brings them where they should have been in the first place in this view. - "Auf in den Kampf", Brian, maybe you should drop this heretic' a severe note. :) Although Robert C. Ettinger is mentioned together with six others prominently in the credits by the author, cryonics is also treated rather offhandedly: "Such tales aside, cryonics seems no more unreasonable than the ancient pharaohs' preparation for afterlife. Basically those who have their bodies frozen are making a bet. They are betting that: (1) their cause of death can eventually be cured; (2) they can be revived after storage in liquid nitrogen; and (3) their frozen bodies will be faithfully preserved until (1) and (2) can be accomplished. If they lose the bet, so what? They are already dead." There is no mention of research. Although Dr. Fahi's research at C21 only got underway at about the time the book was finalized, the Prometheus Project had already collected pledges for $4 million and , I am sure was mentioned by Robert Ettinger to him. There was likewise no allusion to perfusion, staged cool-down, attempts on vitrification etc. For all I learned about cryonics in this book, my body would be tossed into liquid nitrogen like a lettuce leaf is tossed into the freezer [I can already hear Paul and Charles grinding out grim grunts of agreement' :)]. We learn that the Cryonics Institute was formed in 1976, has 180 members and houses twenty frozen bodies. "Other organizations have arisen as well, such as the Alcor Life Extension Foundation in Arizona. We also learn: "Laboratory rat hearts have been frozen in liquid nitrogen, then thawed and started beating again." [None the wiser about Visser :] I was familiar with almost all aspects of life-extension efforts Ben Bova mentions in his book, but appreciated to have it all assembled in a comprehensive package. However I was intrigued By: "Four months earlier a pair of Harvard researchers announced that they had grown replacement organs- including hearts, kidneys and bladders -for lab rats, rabbits and sheep. They used the animals' own cells as the starting material, grew new organs in the laboratory and then implanted them surgically into the animals. "The two scientists who made the announcement- Anthony Atala and Dario Fauza- pointed out that one of the earliest uses of their work could be to correct birth defects while the baby is still in the womb." I have tried to do a quick search on medline on this to me very interesting work, but have so far found nothing, probably for lack of pertinent key words. This could reduce the need of organ donation and the dangers of rejection or immune-deficiencies significantly. If anybody can find out more about this, I would appreciate a lead-in. As I said, despite disagreements with some of Bova's evaluations of the benefits of certain tools for life extension, I am glad I read the book. It is rather comprehensive and informative for the lay-person. It will hopefully encourage the readers, who have not been exposed to a lot of information on the subject to do their own research of the available material and form their own opinions on which means of life extension are important to them. The very best wishes to all of you for a joyous festive season and for a successful and rewarding new year, Olaf Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=10970