X-Message-Number: 11031
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: To Steve Bridge and Yvan Bozzonetti
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:29:44 +1100 (EST)

For Steve Bridge: 
I should correct myself. Yes, it's true that Alcor can make no legally
definable or defensible promise. Nor can any other cryonics society.
However you yourself discuss things which might be done in the future
after one of Alcor's member-patients has been revived, right in your

And it remains to the interest of all living members of Alcor at that time
that it not be seen as simply reviving someone and then (figuratively)
throwing him or her out the door to make their way in that future world
in which they are revived.

The "promise" comes not from anything legal, nor from anything explicitly
said, but from the role a cryonics society is likely to play in the 
adjustment of a revived patient to the world on his/her revival. That
adjustment might easily include providing the equivalent that time has
of money, so that the patient does not arrive totally destitute. 

I had thought that some statements by Alcor officials suggested such
possibilities. If I am wrong then I apologize. And yes, it is a delicate
matter legally because of the present situation, even if some Alcor 
officials HAVE made such suggestions.

To Yvan:
I know quite well how you may well want to remain in France as long as
possible. It seems to me that you would do better to set up means to help
you and other French cryonicists to leave when your death seems imminent;
you need only cross the Channel to England.

Furthermore, if you bought and equipped your own heart lung equipment
(yes, you'd need help from foreign cryonicists) then even if you or
another French cryonicist actually ceased to breathe or have a heartbeat,
you could move them across the Channel to England, have them declared
"dead" there, and forthwith suspended.

I also have another suggestion, much more draconian, which may in the end
mean that you can practice cryonics in France. As I understand it, the
problem is that you must be provably dead ie. left without support for
some relatively lengthy period, before you are declared dead. I find this
a rather odd provision of the law, probably related to becoming a 
candidate for transplant. If such a system were to be used for EVERY 
person dying in France, a great deal of expense and time will be needed
in terms of keeping dying people alive as long as possible on respirators
(or NOT putting them on respirators, which would produce lots of political
backlash), etc etc. This suggests to ME that the definition of "death"
used in France is not actually a description of what usually happens.

It seems to me that if you can find a French lawyer who is both
knowledgeable and sympathetic to cryonics, you may be able to find
loopholes you can use to practise cryonics in France. Yes, lawyers are
expensive. But then you may be able to collect enough to pay one or more
from those in France who are personally interested in cryonics.

I have only been in France very briefly, and argue here much more on logic
than on any special knowledge of French law or the French situation. And
certainly English and American law are fundamentally different in many
ways. But I'd still be amazed if no loopholes existed.

There is a partial procedure which may at least suggest some
possibilities. Nothing keeps you from getting the lawbooks and reading 
them yourself, in detail. This would include whatever material will tell
you how French judges would interpret these laws. Moreover, this is a 
problem I've noticed for some time. I can read French (please don't ask
me to speak or write it, my accent and grammar would be TERRIBLE) and if
you could name some relevant lawbooks I might even get hold of them and
look through them myself. This is not a promise, I have lots of other
things I have to do. And you are really one of the best people to do 
this. But I am still interested.

			Best and long long life to all,

				Thomas Donaldson

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=11031