X-Message-Number: 11053 From: Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:46:07 EST Subject: questions Michael Schepps (#11046) has questions on uploading and criteria of survival, in particular the case where your stored version has not been fully updated when you die. This is only one of many thought experiments which produce questions but not answers, and which frequently thrust in opposite directions. Many people currently would probably say that you "survive" (more or less) if a reasonably accurate and reasonably updated copy of you is produced, either in meat or in silicon; and also if you are alive after cryostasis and thawing. This is plausible, but far from proven. 1. The whole "information paradigm" is plausible but unproven. Isomorphism is not necessarily everything. Your "information" could in principle be recorded in a book on paper, but it is surely a stretch to imagine that the existence of that book would equate with your survival. 2. We don't even know yet whether it is possible in principle for silicon to have feelings. Until we understand the anatomy/physiology of subjectivity, we will not know whether the essential aspects of the mechanisms can be duplicated or instantiated on an inorganic substrate. After all, for example, there is (apparently) nothing whatever that can in ALL respects substitute for a carbon atom. Neither is there any assurance that, in an inorganic medium, ALL of the essential functions of life-as-we-know-it (LAWKI) can exist. 3. The Turing-test arguments are total nonsense. It is easy to show that passing a "Turing Test" is neither necessary nor sufficient to prove humanity or awareness. 4. Would even an exact physical duplicate of you "be" "you" and would its survival constitute "your" survival? Various thought experiments provide "proof" either way. But you couldn't get me into a beam-me-up machine. 5. Suppose you die in an accident, and somehow a "duplicate" of you is later created--not as you were, but as you might have become, many years later, had you not died in the accident. Have "you" survived? 6. Suppose, after your death, a duplicate is created--not as you were at time of death, but as you were as a child. Would you say that the child has survived, but that "you" have mostly died? 7. Some of the "paradoxes" of continuity have not been solved. As Mike Perry recently noted, if time is quantized and we "live" as a succession of separate and distinct (even if slightly blurred) states, it is somewhat unclear whether the existence of a successor constitutes "your" survival. Surely survival involves time-binding in some sense, and so probably does awareness itselfCould a system in a fixed and unchanging state feel anything? It hardly seems so; but if feelings must span intervals of time--more than one distinct state--then again many questions are raised that we are not yet prepared to answer. 8. Our motivation apparently is entirely future-oriented, since the past and present are (probably) beyond our influence. Yet again uncomfortable questions arise. In the distant future, "you" may resemble your present self less than you now resemble a fish ancestor, and you may have jettisoned your ancient memories as trivial and irrelevant. We want to improve without limit, but to what extent improvement is compatible with "survival" is far from clear. 9. Quantum questions are relevant and highly uncertain. (!) If we really do live in a "multiverse" with vast numbers of near-duplicates of ourselves, questions proliferate almost as fast as the variations. (I hope the "multiverse" proves false, because the implications seem grisly. If "anything" and "everything" actually happens--to you!--this is surely a tragedy beyond imagining, because only a tiny subset of the possibilities are happy ones, Omega Point notwithstanding….Of course, the universe need not be user- friendly; almost all species, and almost all individuals, have come to miserable ends; and arguably most of them have experienced a preponderance of pain over pleasure.) All this, again, just scratches the surface. My present book in progress attempts to clarify the picture. I am still guardedly optimistic, and still think cryostasis offers a very good chance for life and the pursuit of happiness. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=11053