X-Message-Number: 11095 From: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:27:45 EST Subject: too fuzzy Joe Strout has again given us a thumbnail of the "fuzzy logic" or quantitative approach to the question of criteria of survival--a sufficiently close duplicate of you "is" you, and a version of lesser fidelity is partly you. Another comment or two on the weaknesses of this view: (A preliminary aside: the uploaders, of whom I get the impression Mr. Strout is one, go further. They claim that you are essentially an abstraction, your essence being in information and its processing. Although a physical instantiation is necessary for implementation, any medium will do; isomorphism is everything. Thus "you" or partly-you could "live" in countless forms simultaneously. [Aside to the aside: David Deutsch claims a Turing "universal" computer is not really universal, because it is classical rather than quantum, and would take longer than the age of the universe to do quantum computations. This suggests (cf. Penrose) that a classical computer could not be a person, even if the other objections did not exist.]) First, the fuzzies need to spell out WHICH qualities or quantities are important for duplication of essence. As far as I can tell, there are only two serious candidates. One is memory, broadly understood to include such things as personality and habits; everybody recognizes this. The other is the self circuit or subjective circuit, the part or aspect of the brain or its functions that allows or constitutes feeling (qualia); few recognize this as a separate consideration. Second, if they agree with Mr. Strout that duplicates are me, but nevertheless feel I need not ever make any sacrifices for those other instantiations of me, they should explain why. I am constantly making at least small sacrifices for my future self--why not even major sacrifices, if necessary, for a possible host of other selves? Third, we can go back to the most obvious problem--an instant show-stopper for most people, as someone on this list recently remarked . "I am HERE; that person over THERE, no matter how similar, must be someone else. If a bee stings him, I will not feel it, even though I may empathize. If he dies, I still live and do not feel diminished. If I am about to die, the prospect of him living on will not console me." Mr. Strout apparently would answer that this reaction is born of ignorance, cultural inertia, lack of experience with duplicates. But we have plenty of experience with partial duplicates. Every other person--indeed, every dog and cat--is pretty similar to me in many ways, so aren't they all "partly" me, despite the sometimes very low fidelity? (Some Oriental philosophers say yes, you share identity with every living being.) Philosophers of antiquity thought they could unriddle the universe just by cogitation--a few years of observing life, plus a few thousand man-hours of deep contemplation. They underestimated the problem. We needed--and probably still need--trillions of man-hours of work plus quadrillions of dollars worth of new gadgets, at minimum. That is not a cause for pessimism--just a reminder that we can simply acknowledge that we are temporarily stymied in the search for reliable criteria of survival, and press forward on both experimental and theoretical fronts, meanwhile placing our bets and doing the best we can. The mark of maturity is serenity in the face of uncertainty. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=11095