X-Message-Number: 11111 From: Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:57:30 EST Subject: double-think Brook Norton's post #11104 was mostly on the button and showed that I do make myself reasonably clear at least sometimes and to some people. Yes, it may turn out that "you" only survive for a subjective moment, possibly 1/20 of a second (a common interval of subjective discrimination). As I (and others) have said many times, we have no assurance that the universe is user- friendly. Possibly life (or/and intelligence) is fundamentally and unavoidably tragic. But I emphasize that it is MUCH too soon to actually reach this conclusion. For one thing, if subjective time is different from objective time--as seems almost certain--then we are time-binders and "exist" for more than one chronon (quantum of time interval). And if we can bind over 1/20 of a second, then we can also bind (in some degree) further, since bound intervals can overlap. Whether this means that "you" are rapidly attenuated over time is a question too difficult, and too dependent on future research, to handle now with any degree of confidence. Brook links the psychological discomfort of evanescence with the discomfort, felt by many people, in the question of determinism vs. "free will." The latter, however, is in my opinion a much easier problem. Whether we are deterministic in the classical sense, or in the multiverse quantum sense, or in the older quantum sense that includes random elements, we have no freedom whatever on the level of basic physics. But we do not live on that level; we live on the level of consciousness, and on that level we do have freedom. (No, it isn't really appropriate to call that kind of freedom "illusion.") Suppose worse comes to worst, and it is proven that "you" survive only a subjective moment, hence have no ability whatever to improve or change the condition of your evanescent self one whit. Is all lost? Not necessarily. We can still take refuge in double-think, as we necessarily do all the time anyway. For example, in order to get by psychologically, it is essential to turn off most of our empathy most of the time and ignore the unspeakable sufferings of vast numbers of people and lower animals, even our neighbors. If my momentary self chooses to focus attention in a more comfortable channel, then this self and successor selves will feel better. So in a sense, on a conscious level, we have some degree of power to defeat even a crushingly hostile environment. But I EMPHASIZE once more that it is extremely premature to make any final conclusions, pessimistic or otherwise. (And it is often better to err on the side of optimism, since then at least you feel better for a while, whereas if you are "correctly" pessimistic you feel worse both now and later. Pessimism, as a choice, is justified only when it motivates actions that tend to improve matters.) We simply do not yet know enough about the universe, and especially about time and quantum physics, to justify any firm conclusions on these matters. We do not, for example, even know for sure that actions in the present cannot change the past; some serious people think they can. Evolution has bred into us (sometimes, among other things) an incredible gallantry that allows us puny motes to take on all comers against all odds. Even if the foe is really there, and even if he really is unbeatable, we will continue to fight. But again, it is much too soon to assume the worst case. Cheer up and be a happy warrior! Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=11111