X-Message-Number: 1113 Date: 08 Aug 92 23:10:05 EDT From: "Allen J. Lopp" <> Subject: CRYONICS - Spouses & Lovers in Suspension Message-Id: <> NOTE: THIS EMAIL SHOULD NOT GO TO sci.cryonics NEWSGROUP. I find the discussion about spouses and lovers in suspension both amusing and disturbing. I'd like to add my two cents, and mostly I would like to second Lola McCrary's input on this topic. Since I have identified and circulated in the American gay male community for about twenty years, I hope I can bring a different perspective to this discussion that at least a few will find insightful. Heterosexual marriage is an "institution" that has been put in place by two aspects of mass social action, the Church and the State. Historically, one of the functions of the marriage institution is to address the situation in which a man and a woman choose to share their lives together, and to mandate to these individuals what the nature of their relationship will be if they desire to fit smoothly into the fabric of the rest of society. Lola has very wisely pointed out that the classic institution of marriage might have little to do with a specific relationship between a specific man and a specific woman. These individuals have the *right* to negotiate the relationship *they* want, and to Hell with the Pope's and everyone else's recipes. Since cryonic suspension is not a situation that the Church and State have yet attacked with the cosmic Cookie Cutter of Social Engineering, individual discussions about what the partners want and are willing to commit to seems like the obvious wise course of action. Hopefully no one has already gone into suspension yet --- but if they have, well, my attitude is that one's life is always one's own, and you get to make your own decisions along with suffering all the fear and trembling that that entails. Since homosexual relationships have not been included in the social cookie cutter called "marriage", gay men and lesbians have been left more on their own to individually tailor their relationships --- at least, this has been my experience. (Despite the clamorings of many gay activists for the legalization of gay marriages, I personally find this to be more of a blessing than a curse.) Some have entered into strictly monogamous relationships, and others get into relationships that are "emotionally monogamous" but sexually non-monogamous; I have even known a few instances of "marriages" among three or even four men. Personally, I find the challenge of keeping one lover at a time happy tricky enough, even though I find the fantasy of having rewarding loving relationships with two or three partners simultaneously a very attractive one. The point is simply that 1) most of us have been raised with the teaching that the parameters of a marriage relationship are formulated by society and are not subject to individual negotiation --- but now that we are sovereign adults living in a (supposedly) freer society, this paradigm needs to be re-examined; 2) the relationship is not an end in itself --- relationships exist to satisfy (hopefully) the emotional needs of individuals, and it is the *individuals* that are important, NOT THE RELATIONSHIP. This second point is very important, for it has taken my a 37-year lifetime to really learn that I am a complete individual whether I am currently in a relationship or currently single. The notion that someone would base a decision about continuing to live or committing suicide --- or abandoning plans for cryonic suspension --- because of the presence or loss of a relationship seems to me to be indicative of an immature sense of personhood. (I do not say this judgmentally --- I say it even though I personally have thought about suicide while grieving over the loss of an important relationship, even recently. I simply have learned to separate my emotional pain from my philosophical grasp of what being a human being must sometimes entail.) Well, I expect I have said about enough. My parting thought, Charles et al, is this: I have a former lover who is signed up for suspension, a friend in suspension who I suspect I might enjoy being lovers with, and the man I am currently involved with is considering cryonics as well. Moreover, there are a number of attractive men in cryonics (presumably heterosexual) that I sometimes fantasize about (not a lot, just a little), and since the future could possibly dispose them to be more open about homosexual relationships I don't consider them to be certainly forever unavailable. Even more, in the future I might have the option to re-wire myself to increase the psychological rewards I might get out of heterosexual relationships, making me bi-sexual in the truest sense, and I might have the option to switch into a female body from time to time if a heterosexual man I am interested in won't consider experimenting with a homosexual relationship (full disclosure, of course). Then there's the chance to explore eroticism with those new androgynous creatures from the Vega system --- you know, the ones that telepathically stimulate your prostate gland with lightning bolts? What a rush! And don't forget the promises of virtual reality and teledildonics. Confused? Just whip up your ideal lover in the holodex room! (Five dollars for the first three minutes.) Well everyone, are you still with me? I doubt that the current rules about sex and love will still be around in the 22nd Century --- although they, too, I expect, will still be among the OPTIONS. Anyone still worried about working things out with two former wives? It might be the LEAST of your concerns!!! Bon amor ... Allen J. Lopp Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=1113