X-Message-Number: 11239
From: 
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:32:08 EST
Subject: states, functions, & survival

Mike Perry (#11235) acknowledges that  

>Yes, the quantum state does encode postional information. …So, when
Tipler says that two similar gas molecules in the ground state are in "the
same quantum state" it seems clear he means "the same up to change of
coordinates."  

But Mike seems to cling to the view that, barring significant interactions
with the external environment, coordinates in configuration space are not
important to the question of the "identity" of replicas separated in space
(or time). Further comments or reminders:  

1. Tipler not only ignores change of coordinates of (say) the center of
mass of the system, but also of the orientation coordinates of the
molecules of the system. That doesn't matter in gas thermodynamics, but it
does matter in a system containing solids or semi-solids. If too many of
your molecules are pointing in the wrong direction, relative to each
other, you are definitely different. Granted, one could just amend Tipler
to provide for orientation coordinates, and this point becomes merely a
quibble. So I just  mention it for the record.  

2. If we ignore spacetime coordinates in specifying the quantum state of a
system, then we leave open the possibility of overlapping systems--e.g.
two systems occupying the same space at the same time, either an
impossibility or a catastrophe.  

Can we patch this too by agreeing that the systems must not overlap? Not
easily, I think. If the systems are not overlapping, but close, you still
have problems, since you and your replica(s) will certainly behave
differently if you are rubbing elbows. You might easily be competitors in
some ways, as Donaldson has pointed out; far from regarding them as self,
you might even become hostile toward your replicas.  

Or if the spacetime separation is so great that you can never know
anything about your replicas, you are in the strange position (if you
accept replicas as self) of trying to take into account, in your
philosophy of life, mere esoteric possibilities.  

3. We also still face peculiar questions arising from the lack of
agreement on interpretation of quantum theory. Some claim that, in the
absence of a recent observation (whatever that means--also not agreed
upon), a system does not HAVE a quantum state; it only has a wave
function. The wave function does not give the coordinates in phase
space--only a probability distribution, or a set of them.  

 4. The MAIN consideration about replicas-as-self remains the difference
between internal and external viewpoints.  Even if it were true that, for
an outside observer, there is absolutely nothing to choose between you and
your replica, and no way even in principle to distinguish between you
(initially), you would STILL differ subjectively. A physical threat to one
might not be a threat to the other. MY feeling is HERE and HIS feeling is
THERE. If the brain HERE is destroyed, its self circuit (ME) is gone, and
I am gone.  

Yet again, none of this proves anything, because (as far as I can see)
every single proposal for criteria of survival is badly flawed. We can
only pursue the experimental and theoretical research that will eventually
reveal better answers, and meanwhile place our bets and take our chances. 


Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society
http://www.cryonics.org  

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