X-Message-Number: 11286 From: Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:36:49 EST Subject: lightning/slow Dr. Daniel Crevier commented (#11279) on a possible explanation of the Fermi Paradox (Where are the ETs?) in terms of future evolution to electronic intelligences, with resulting vast increases in subjective time of communication and transport in the "real" world. A few remarks: (1) The mention of "Darwinian evolution" seems irrelevant or misleading, for at least two reasons. (a) Our individual criteria of success include survival, but not necessarily proliferation. (b) The super-machines, by Crevier's own account, might be completely uninterested in the biological world or even the entire "real" universe, hence generally would not compete with biologicals. (2) The whole speculation is based on the premise that non-biologicals can be people, with subjective lives. This is far from proven. (Yes, unfeeling systems might still be intelligent and goal-directed, but their "fitness" to survive might be in question, for reasons I have previously mentioned but omit here to save space.) (3) The Crevier posting involves two different scenarios--one in which lightning-fast thinkers live in slow bodies and a slow world, and one in which the environment is simulated. (The thinkers themselves presumably could either be independent physical systems or else simulations in a computer.) The former scenario has serious difficulties, as he shows; the latter even more, just one example being the necessity of simulating a large environment including other people. If these other people are real, with subjective lives, who confers or assumes the right to create them and maintain them? And what prevents a cascade of subsimulations, with all that implies? Such suggestions do have the virtue of stimulating thought, which occasionally is even otherwise useful as well as amusing. I do plan to read the Crevier book. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=11286