X-Message-Number: 11359
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 00:37:19 -0800
From: Jeff Davis <>
Subject: Cryonet relevance, etc.

Fellow Cryonetistas,

	Charles Platt is gone.  This is a bad thing?  If a tree falls in the forest and
	Charles Platt is not there to hear it, will it still make a noise?  Who cares?
	I first encountered Charles Platt on the cryonet, haranging Dr. Ettinger over 
	some aspect of the CI protocol, or the Pichugin work, or something, I no longer
	remember what.  Dr. Ettinger would patiently and thoughtfully respond, but CP 
	would keep coming back at him, like a bulldog who's sunk his teeth into 
	something and won't let go.  My impression was that CP was trying to promote 
	himself by critiquing the work of someone with genuine stature, calculating 
	that, in the eyes of others, his own stature would be enhanced.  Not!  In short
	CP seemed self-important, grumpy, contemptuous, ready to advance himself at 
	the expense of others, and frankly, lacking any real talent for the finer 
	technical points relating to cryonics.  He might have some talent as a 
	businessman, where bullying ones employees and/or competitors can be a 
	semi-valid strategy.

	Perhaps Charles should seek out that theoretical one-among-zillions particular 
	universe wherein he is the grand imperial poobah and the physical principles 
	themselves include a quantum filter such that all possible thought is 
	pre-screened in virtual form for correspondence to Plattian principles, and no 
	wave function can collapse save it meet this fitness test.  In that universe 
	there would be only a CryoCarenet, and "serves no useful purpose whatsover" 
	would mean what Charles Platt thinks it means, rather than the petulant and 
	inconsequential meaning it bears in this universe, namely, "serves no useful 
	purpose whatsover to Charles stick-up-his-butt Platt."

	Aaaaaahhh, that felt good!!  Who says cryonics can't be fun?

	By the way, Charles, thanks for posting the 21CM report.  Ya done good.

	Now on to substantive, focused, cryonics-related stuff.

	When will the 21CM folks be finished with their patent filings, so we can pump 
	some hamster full of their new miracle cryoprotectant, send him for a little 
	excursion to number 77 Kelvin Terrace, and bring him back for a report on his 
	trip?  Or if he's feelin' too poorly to report, to see just how poorly.  

	Now don't anyone embarrass themselves by thinking that I expect the cryorodent 
	to jump up party-animal style.  But, after structural damage, what's left?  
	Toxicity, right?  As in poisoning, right?  And if the patient is on the table, 
	and intact--as in not structurally diced at the cellular level--then we're 
	ready for the ER team to treat him for,...poisoning.  Catheterize him (whoops! 
	he's already cateterized from his trip in the kelvinator) and start pumpin'.  
	In goes the good blood out comes the bad blood.  Bag 'em, put 'em on dialysis, 
	whack 'em on the chest, etc.(I've seen ER.  Have Carter hold his little paw.)  

	Saul, Greg, Brian, Mike, what's the holdup?

	By the way,...Saul,...going commercial,...hitching the cryonics movement to the
	powerful, profit driven dynamo of capitalist economics.  Smartest damn thing 
	since Dr. E wrote the book.  The single most effective decision ever made in 
	cryonics.  I hope you make a billion dollars--as well as realize the dream we 
	all care about so much.  Kudos.  I prostrate myself humbly in the presence of 

	Finally, I want to congratulate Scott Badger for his work, the report of which 
	appeared in The Journal of Transhumanism, entitled:


which can be found somewhere in the vicinity of 


	A couple of interesting points:  Since the survey was conducted on the net, the
	basic materials are all in electronically distributable form.  So the work can
	be repeated and expanded upon fairly easily: just plug it into the next web 

	While this offers the opportunity to get more/better data--which I personally 
	view as exceptionally valuable in effectively promoting cryonics--it has 
	another advantage.  The survey ITSELF promotes and educates about cryonics.  
	This "survey" (wink, wink) may have it's greater value as a promotional tool.

	On to the results of the survey.

	I'm not surprised, I shouldn't be surprised, but just the same, it was somewhat
	unexpected:  cryonics is too damn expensive.  In hindsight it's so obvious. 
	But, after long exposure, I've just gotten used to the idea that the cost is 
	30-150 grand.  To me, for immortality, it seems eminently reasonable(especially
	30).  But of course, in the real world, 30 grand is nothing to sniff at, and 
	150, well,...at that level you're talking about "rich" people.  (There are 
	people for whom 150 grand is chump change.  But I'm talking about the REAL 

	Which brings me to the subject of getting the price down.  It's a subject which
	has been touched on before.  To achieve economics of scale, whereby the price 
	can be reduced, you need large numbers of folks signed up.  To get large 
	numbers of folks signed up, you need the price down.  Trapped in "the chicken 
	or the egg" situation.  Clearly what's called for is a new idea.  How's this?

	All my life I've substituted do-it-myself for 
	pay-cash-to-have-someone-do-it-for-me.  I know from personal experience that it

	Applied to cryonics it requires finding those people who are interested in 
	cryonics, but who find the current price structure unacceptable (for whatever 
	reason).  People who would consider contributing sweat equity that they have, 
	to cash that they don't.  Their labor substitutes wherever possible, which 
	leaves only materials to be paid for.

	  Members build and operate a solar-power LN2 plant (in the Arizona desert?) 
	  (and sell/trade LN2 to Alcor and CI?) Members learn from Alcor and CI.  
	  Members conduct suspensions for themselves (and for others for a fee). 
	  Members build their own storage facility on the site of their LN2 plant, 
	  where they store their own (and others for a fee).

	You can get to the future in an Alcor Rolls Royce, a CI Packard, or a __?__ 
	model T.  The current price structure won't last.

	Faced with the Gordian knot, Alexander drew his sword.  Limits always get 
	redefined by creativity and attitude.

	For Chrissy Loveday.  Now's not the time to give up.  We're too close.  Courage
	and vision like yours are qualities to be honored and conserved.  It's what 
	cryonics was meant for.  I'm planning a party on the other side, where we'll 
	savor our victory, and remember, perhaps sadly, those we loved and left behind.
	I'd like to see you there.


			Best, Jeff Davis

	   "Everything's hard till you know how to do it."
					Ray Charles				

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