X-Message-Number: 11464
From: Thomas Donaldson <>

Subject: To L. Dean: people behave as they do because they do not expect to live
long
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:49:06 +1100 (EST)

For Leon Dean:

There is another different way of looking at human beings. We may kill one
another because we do not expect ever to need any help from those we kill.
But if we lived for a much longer time, such an expectation would become
more and more reasonable. Not only that, but if we wish to live for a long
time (centuries or millenia) we are unlikely to achieve that aim by
creating lots of people whose relatives we have killed and who want
revenge on US. 

Put briefly, if we all expect to live for a long long time, we'll all have
much more reason to treat one another well. Not doing so is such a good
way of NOT living a long long time. 

For that matter, it's far from clear that even immortality would turn
people highly conservative and unwilling to adopt new ideas. A paper 
years ago in HISTORY OF SCIENCE looked at those who did not adopt
Darwinism when Darwin published his book versus those who did. The first
point is that lots of younger people did not adopt Darwinism, not just 
older people; the second is that those younger people have disappeared
from history, while some of the younger people who ACCEPTED Darwinism
went on to use it in making further discoveries and understanding ---
and so were remembered. Young people were not any more attracted to
Darwin's theories than were older people, it's just that those who
were NOT so attracted were never heard from again.

Chronological age now does cause some degree of conservatism. However even
that comes not from the distance such people are from birth, but their
closeness to their death. Older people now are much more reluctant to 
risk their property, because if they do so they have little chance of 
making the same amount back; while a younger person knows that even if
he loses every penny of his savings, he can make it back well before
he really needs it.

For that matter, even overpopulation is unlikely to be a problem. If
YOU will have to live in the crowded world that might be created if 
you and others have lots of children continually, then YOU will think a 
bit and decide not to have those children (unless you're damn sure you
can support them without impoverishing and crowding yourself). Even
primitive peoples understand such calculations: when we first came
upon the people of Polynesia, it was clear that they exercised a rough
birth control (exposing unwanted babies to the elements). Historically
this even happened in Europe. As you might guess, missionaries tried
to prevent it but were ignored. (I myself have visited New Guinea and
heard of how women would cause abortions to get rid of unwanted babies;
very rough, very painful --- nothing like even the alley abortions of
the 1950's in the US. The missionaries did not like this, but they were
not consulted beforehand. But the real point is that people DO know when
to control their numbers).

			Best and long long life to all,

				Thomas Donaldson

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