X-Message-Number: 11689 Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 16:46:20 -0400 From: Brook Norton <> Subject: Emulations and awareness Mike Perry in msg 11684 gives a good explanation as to how a strong AI proponent would include the passage of time as yet another characteristic that can be emulated. It seems he concludes that a book with complete space and time isomorphism could contain an aware being but that the being would only be aware in its own frame of reference. I think thats a good way to look at it but still have reservations as discussed below. Bob Ettinger often makes the point that information isomorphism may not be enough. "Real world" time and space binding may also be necessary for awareness. I agree that this might be the case. But I want to point out that an emulation based on the physics at the atomic and perhaps the subatomic level would give rise to emulated neurons and entire emulate brains. The emulated atoms would even give rise to emulated "standing waves" and "self-circuits". The emulation, when computed through successive time steps, would have an isomorphic state for every state that a fully aware person in the real world has. Even so, I can't make the logic jump that says an isomorphic state is the same as a real state. To say that an emulated self-circuit has awareness seems too strong. I would say an emulated self-circuit has EMULATED awareness. Real and emulated awareness, for all their similarity, are, I believe, very different things. My comment to Mike Perry would be... considering the example of a book emulation of a person.... The isomophism is only aware in ITS FRAME OF REFERENCE. But I see no evidence that its frame of reference is operational. I think the book guy would be aware if the books frame of reference were to be entered into somehow or made operational in some way, but as far as I can tell, the books frame of reference is just a certain method of bookkeeping and so the book guy is not truely aware. Brook Norton Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=11689