X-Message-Number: 11927 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 01:51:17 -0700 From: Mike Perry <> Subject: :Turing tome interactions, universal language, list splitting Thomas Donaldson, #11915, writes: >Sorry, but I've given in to temptations to talk about the Turing Tome. > >It's far from obvious to me that it must be conscious (in whatever sense) >of any arbitrary person to still count as being conscious (if, that is, >we assume that a Turing machine is conscious). I'm not aware, myself, of >most of the human race. So why must a Turing Tome be able to respond >(by definition) to any other arbitrary person? >... It would not have to, repeat, would not. After thinking about this, I think feeling and consciousness could arise in a system closed off from its surroundings and put through predictable steps. BUT, if a system DID have interactive capabilities, and behaved appropriately, it would tend to strengthen the feeling that there was true consciousness, in a doubtful case. On Bob Ettinger's discussions on a universal language, I find myself in strong general agreement. Perhaps many readers have seen the movie *Contact*, in which aliens let us know they are out there by transmitting the prime numbers, encoded as a series of pulses. Through such simple means a channel of communication might be opened between two highly intelligent but very alien (relative to each other) civilizations. With further exchanges the two would increasingly understand what each other was trying to say on many subjects. I don't buy the argument that there would be *advanced, intelligent* aliens so alien they would not understand basic mathematics. Advanced cultures, really advanced, scientifically and technologically, are not arbitrary, at least I don't think they would be, but all must have certain understanding and knowledge in common. On splitting the list, I would be interested in knowing more about what physically is involved in hosting a filtered list. This is something very new to me. I have offered to help, because I am partly responsible for the dissatisfaction some have expressed with the "philosophical" postings, though I also think they have value and are relevant to the immortalist themes we are pursuing here. And I also think that, really, someone who especially wants this kind of message filtered out would be the best to do the filtering. Make sense? Best to all, Mike Perry Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=11927