X-Message-Number: 12039 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: comments about what deRivas said: our sense of self is important Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:40:07 +1000 (EST) Hi everyone! This message is touched off by deRivas' message in the Cryonet to which I am responding. In his message deRivas seemed to think that the concept of "self" is not important to cryonics. Here's why I think it is very important: when we are suspended, certainly with present methods and quite possibly for future methods of some time yet, we want OURSELVES to be revived. Since irreparable damage may occur to some parts of our brain, it's natural to ask whether or not (even if we learn how to revive that damaged brain) the person in that brain will believe that he/she has actually revived. There is actual scientific work going on now to try to work out by experiment the brain locations involved in selfhood. My own guess is that our sense of self involves interaction between particular centers in our lower brain and the rest of our cortex. Those centers may or may not be individual to us, but probably are not (if so, then their destruction just MAY mean nothing at all for our revival as individual selves: just replace them before revival). Just how many centers in the cortex are needed to make us feel that we are the same person as before remains an open question, and the exact centers may differ with the individual. For instance, if I am a pianist and lose those centers in which my abilities with the piano are stored, I may feel that I have lost something so central to my selfhood that I am no longer the same person. Someone who is not a pianist might lose the same centers (though they are probably not so large or extended) and feel that he or she has been completely revived. In one sense our memories (of all the many kinds of memory we have) are vital to our selfhood; but some may be more vital than others. Note that the pianist may lose his/her SKILLS with the piano without losing his/her memory of being a pianist and playing many complex pieces. This could happen because we do have several different kinds of memory, and loss of one kind does not imply loss of the others. And unlike the cases of brain injury happening today, the necessary brain centers might be completely restored --- but such a pianist would still have to relearn how to play the piano. And all these considerations are important, both for someone who chooses cryonics and for the problem of reviving someone. Whatever else we might do, we want to revive as much of the brain cortex as possible. And not only that: it turns out, strange to say, that our CEREBELLUM deals not just with coordination but holds some kinds of memory too. So that revival of as much of our cerebellum as possible also may be needed. Our hippocampus, on the other hand, may not play a lasting role in preservation of any kind of memory, and thus its complete loss may mean little. And so, if we wish to repair those already suspended, and probably many who will be suspended in the future, we'll need to understand just how our brains create a self and how to do as much as possible to restore it. I don't wish to bang drums here, but this one just begs to be banged: scientific work on how our sense of selfhood works is one of the issues I report in PERIASTRON. And I mean SCIENTIFIC, EXPERIMENTAL work, not just philosophical musings. The idea that we could only do philosophy on this subject disappeared with Skinner. Best and long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=12039