X-Message-Number: 12262 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: Re: Transplants is to cryonics as air flight is to space flight Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 16:45:59 +0100 One could have said the same thing in the 1950s about space flight. There were loads of people working on aeroplanes, but only a small band of "lunatics" like the British Interplanetary Society took space flight seriously. Behind the scenes there were a few established engineers working on it, but even in the year of the Sputnik (1957) highly regarded officials, such as the British Astronomer Royal, were reported as saying that "Space travel is bunk". Half a century earlier, established steam engine engineers and academics did calculations based on the power/weight ratio of steam engines and declared that powered flight was bunk. Go back another 75 years or so and the establishment though that if a human travelled faster than about 15 MI/hr the air would be sucked out of his lungs, or even that his body would explode. The fact of the matter is that cryonics is not attracting serious attention because the infrastructure to complete the whole cryopreservation-revival cycle is not present. The establishment refuses to listen to the argument that people dying now are better cryopreserved in hope than left to burn or rot in despair. The other half of the cycle (restoration) can be performed when the infrastructure is there. Many people "make" PCs for themselves. But they only do this by plugging in boards. They could not do this if someone else had not made the boards in the first place. Go back 30 years, and people "made" radios. They could not do this unless others made transistors and other parts for them. Back another 30 years and yes, people could still make radios, but winding your own coils and using oxidised copper sheet or lump of coal and a piece of fine wire ("cat's whisker") to make a semiconductor diode didn't produce a radio that could do much. And that lot probably bought their headphones. Those that made transistor radios would have been just as capable of making computers as we are, but they'd laugh at you if you suggested that they try or even that they could try in the future. I know, I was there. I can remember wanting a computer in around 1960 (influenced by sci fi no doubt) and being told that they cost three million pounds and in any case couldn't do much. Two or three years later I and a friend were wondering what could be done with a few diode gates, transistor flip-flops and a teleprinter. But by 1980 I had a computer with 32k memory and which could run little programs in BASIC, and do far more than the 3,000,000 pound job in 1960. I could have struggled with diodes and a teleprinter between 1963 and 1980 and never got that far. Today, of course, I effectively can get any computer I am capable of using for virtually nothing - past investments in the industry produce the money and the Internet provides a cheap source of boards, with customers forcing down prices. But if I had spend the money otherwise invested in millions of diodes and transistors (they were relatively expensive then) my total expenditure on computers would have been positive not negative, and I doubt whether the contraption I was planning would have worked anyway. cryopreservation now + investment now = reanimation research in the future + revivals in the future -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, my singles club for people in Cornwall, music, Inventors' report, an autobio and various other projects: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JohndeR ----- Original Message ----- > Message #12249 > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 05:47:20 -0400 > From: Saul Kent <> > Subject: Reality Check > > In the 1960s, the transplantation industry > did not yet exist, yet there were at least a half dozen > research teams conducting organ cryopreservation > research for transplant. It was also the time when > cryonics began. > > Today, transplantation is mainstream > medicine, Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=12262