X-Message-Number: 12264 From: "George Smith" <> References: <> Subject: Moral Outrage. Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:59:29 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEE77A.363F5860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have read the replies to my statements regarding the inevitability of cryonics success due to the coming application of the Nano-computer breakthrough to medical technology. My whole and entire suggestion is that IT DOES NOT MATTER what is done in "cryopreservation research" TODAY. I mean it. IT DOESN'T MATTER! I believe current work in research will almost certainly prove to be unnecessary - a redundant effort which with any effort can be seen to be a waste of current time and effort. Why? It is simply too early in the game to be effective. Barring a miracle. (Prayers anyone?). The Nano-computer will certainly be seized by the medical technology giants and applied to the resuscitation of comatose patients (advancing brain restoration research) as well as used in the lucrative organ transplant industry. This is certain as it is where the money will continue to flow. Follow the money. And with that money the Giants of medical research will bypass ANYTHING smaller cryonics research groups can achieve in the meantime. Any breakthrough we make, THEY will make anyway. Inevitably. The spin-offs from their efforts will enable us to THEN pursue the issues of repairing freezing damage to patients. When the juggernaut of Big Science has broken new ground, we can THEN use the results of their innovations to resolve issues of lesser complexity, such as freezing damage reversal. At least THEN we will be dealing with these problems with effective tools capable of solving the problems in question. Again, it is too soon for us to repair the "car" of the human body and brain. We need proper wrenches and screwdrivers and hammers. Rocks and flint arrowheads will not do the job. Effective auto repair requires effective tools or the job can't be done. If you happened to come up with the tools first, well, congratulations! Chances are, however, THEY will beat you anyway. They have both the money and the motivation (more profits). AT BEST it is my understanding that ALL current efforts are based upon the ASSUMPTION that current improvements in cryopreservation will be meaningful. But we DON'T KNOW that this is true at all! ALL of our research can result in only a guess. Nothing more, until that first human cryonics patient open his eyes and says, "My, God! Am I alive again?" THEN we will know. Not before. Frankly, I feel that the emphasis on our current primitive level of research is nothing more than human hubris at its worst, disconnected from the larger picture of history. The human neurotic need to be "right" bypasses the effort for survival over and over. My uncle, an engineer who worked for NASA, wrote a report demanding that pure oxygen NOT be used in the Apollo capsule as it was a fire hazard in the extreme. His report was "lost". It was not what the "higher ups" wanted to hear. It would "delay" the moon effort. As a result, three astronauts died hideously, screaming in inhuman pain. My uncle never got over the studied ignorance which "lost" his report to his dying day. I believe it actually shortened his life. He hated the stupidity of human arrogance which would sell the safety of "his" moon program in order for some self-righteous person to be "right". Shall I enumerate historical example after example of stubborn, ego-driven scientists who would not look to reason, but demanded that reality somehow bend to their whim? So that they could be "right" in the eyes of others? So they could salve their egos? "Man will never fly". "Man will never go to the moon". "Space flight is bunk". "Atomic energy is impossible". My entire point is that it is wiser to assume that the juggernaut of modern medical industry with its billions of dollars and crystal-clear profit motive will succeed whether or not others, such as 21st Century, succeed or not. IF IT CAN BE DONE "THEY" WILL DO IT - SOONER OR LATER. Don't believe it? If you don't think THEY can do it, with billions of dollars and the world's best researchers, what makes you think WE can do it better, with less money and fewer scientists? WELL? It is one thing to pursue an heroic fantasy (WE will achieve immortality through our personal heroic scientific efforts because we are somehow special or superior!). It is another thing to acknowledge social reality (THEY will utilize the Nano-computer in medical technology because they will make money and THEN we can use THEIR developments to achieve the goal of cryonics). But what DOES matter is the unwarranted PESSIMISM I see projected from the pseudo-scientific "Cassandras" who have the temerity to pretend that they ALREADY KNOW what will or will not work BEFORE IT HAS BEEN PROVEN. Maybe you will be proven right. Maybe not. Maybe your cryopreservation research will be proven meaningful. Or maybe it will be shown as the future unfolds to have been a worthless deadend mistake, placed beside the "humours" of medieval medicine or the "phlogeston" of primitive physics. The simple fact of the matter is, when all is said and done only the success of cryonics will reveal the final truth. Until then, all else is only a guess I am tired of the pessimistic nonsense which causes human lives to be lost. Those who are considering cryonics for themselves and those they love will read your words of pessimism and assume that today's scientific hubris is trustworthy, and choose to not take the steps that could save their lives. This is a moral outrage. Just last week one of my closest friends finally understood that cryonics suspension didn't require thousands of dollars (something he didn't have as a working career police officer). By explaining that for only $35 every three months and less than a $50,000 term life insurance policy he could be signed up for a whole body suspension, he suddenly bypassed the pessimism he had read on the cryonet. Now he is busily signing up for membership. Pessimism kills,. Honesty requires optimism. Cryonics requires optimism. I am tired of and angered by the pseudo-heroic fantasies of those who feel a need to be "first", to be "right". It doesn't matter who is "first". And the economics of medical research NOW assures us of success, no matter WHO gets there "first"! These are issues of life and death. Yours and others. Please act responsibly. George Smith http://www.cryonics.org ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEE77A.363F5860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>I have read the replies to my statements regarding the inevitability of cryonics success due to the coming application of the Nano-computer breakthrough to medical technology.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My whole and entire suggestion is that IT DOES NOT MATTER what is done in "cryopreservation research" TODAY.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IT DOESN'T MATTER!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I believe current work in research will almost certainly prove to be unnecessary - a redundant effort which with any effort can be seen to be a waste of current time and effort.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is simply too early in the game to be effective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Barring a miracle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Prayers anyone?).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Nano-computer will certainly be seized by the medical technology giants and applied to the resuscitation of comatose patients (advancing brain restoration research) as well as used in the lucrative organ transplant industry. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is certain as it is where the money will continue to flow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Follow the money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And with that money the Giants of medical research will bypass ANYTHING smaller cryonics research groups can achieve in the meantime.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any breakthrough we make, THEY will make anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Inevitably.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The spin-offs from their efforts will enable us to THEN pursue the issues of repairing freezing damage to patients. When the juggernaut of Big Science has broken new ground, we can THEN use the results of their innovations to resolve issues of lesser complexity, such as freezing damage reversal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At least THEN we will be dealing with these problems with effective tools capable of solving the problems in question. Again, it is too soon for us to repair the "car" of the human body and brain. We need proper wrenches and screwdrivers and hammers. Rocks and flint arrowheads will not do the job. Effective auto repair requires effective tools or the job can't be done.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you happened to come up with the tools first, well, congratulations! Chances are, however, THEY will beat you anyway. They have both the money and the motivation (more profits).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AT BEST it is my understanding that ALL current efforts are based upon the ASSUMPTION that current improvements in cryopreservation will be meaningful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But we DON'T KNOW that this is true at all!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL of our research can result in only a guess. Nothing more, until that first human cryonics patient open his eyes and says, "My, God! Am I alive again?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>THEN we will know. Not before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frankly, I feel that the emphasis on our current primitive level of research is nothing more than human hubris at its worst, disconnected from the larger picture of history.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The human neurotic need to be "right" bypasses the effort for survival over and over. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My uncle, an engineer who worked for NASA, wrote a report demanding that pure oxygen NOT be used in the Apollo capsule as it was a fire hazard in the extreme. His report was "lost". It was not what the "higher ups" wanted to hear. It would "delay" the moon effort. As a result, three astronauts died hideously, screaming in inhuman pain. My uncle never got over the studied ignorance which "lost" his report to his dying day. I believe it actually shortened his life. He hated the stupidity of human arrogance which would sell the safety of "his" moon program in order for some self-righteous person to be "right".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shall I enumerate historical example after example of stubborn, ego-driven scientists who would not look to reason, but demanded that reality somehow bend to their whim? So that they could be "right" in the eyes of others? So they could salve their egos?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Man will never fly".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Man will never go to the moon".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Space flight is bunk".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Atomic energy is impossible".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My entire point is that it is wiser to assume that the juggernaut of modern medical industry with its billions of dollars and crystal-clear profit motive will succeed whether or not others, such as 21st Century, succeed or not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IF IT CAN BE DONE "THEY" WILL DO IT - SOONER OR LATER.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't believe it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you don't think THEY can do it, with billions of dollars and the world's best researchers, what makes you think WE can do it better, with less money and fewer scientists?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WELL?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is one thing to pursue an heroic fantasy (WE will achieve immortality through our personal heroic scientific efforts because we are somehow special or superior!). It is another thing to acknowledge social reality (THEY will utilize the Nano-computer in medical technology because they will make money and THEN we can use THEIR developments to achieve the goal of cryonics).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But what DOES matter is the unwarranted PESSIMISM I see projected from the pseudo-scientific "Cassandras" who have the temerity to pretend that they ALREADY KNOW what will or will not work BEFORE IT HAS BEEN PROVEN.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you will be proven right. Maybe not. Maybe your cryopreservation research will be proven meaningful. Or maybe it will be shown as the future unfolds to have been a worthless deadend mistake, placed beside the "humours" of medieval medicine or the "phlogeston" of primitive physics. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The simple fact of the matter is, when all is said and done only the success of cryonics will reveal the final truth. Until then, all else is only a guess</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am tired of the pessimistic nonsense which causes human lives to be lost. Those who are considering cryonics for themselves and those they love will read your words of pessimism and assume that today's scientific hubris is trustworthy, and choose to not take the steps that could save their lives. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a moral outrage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just last week one of my closest friends finally understood that cryonics suspension didn't require thousands of dollars (something he didn't have as a working career police officer). By explaining that for only $35 every three months and less than a $50,000 term life insurance policy he could be signed up for a whole body suspension, he suddenly bypassed the pessimism he had read on the cryonet. Now he is busily signing up for membership.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pessimism kills,. Honesty requires optimism. Cryonics requires optimism.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am tired of and angered by the pseudo-heroic fantasies of those who feel a need to be "first", to be "right".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It doesn't matter who is "first". And the economics of medical research NOW assures us of success, no matter WHO gets there "first"!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are issues of life and death.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Yours and others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please act responsibly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>George Smith</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.cryonics.org">http://www.cryonics.org</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEE77A.363F5860-- Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=12264