X-Message-Number: 12415
From: "john grigg" <>

Subject: U.S. courts and physician assisted deanimation for cryonic 
suspension... 
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:12:40 PDT

Hello everyone,

I was fascinated by what Jeff Davis posted regarding what would be commonly 
called physician assisted suicide.  I am not a lawyer or legal expert but I 
wonder if "physician assisted suicide" could be seen as a different thing 
entirely in the case of cryonic suspension??  Afterall, we only intend to be 
"temporarily" at rest while technology advances to a point where we can be 
"awakened".  And some top notch scientific minds view cryonics as having a 
strong possibility of succeeding which would work to our favor.

So on this basis could we appeal to the courts and have "physician assisted 
deanimation" for cryonic suspension made totally legal??  I look forward to 
what you all have to say regarding this.

Personally I think we could appeal successfully to the american public on 
the basis of civil liberties and the interest in science as a means of life 
extension(even if that is cryonics).  We would not be once and for all 
ending a life but hopefully just giving it a period of inactivity.  
Religious groups could fault us for trying to escape the relative short span 
of life at present but not for wanting to simply end life before it's time.  
Even disability groups might become interested in our message of a better 
world that we are trying to reach.  They would have reason more then the 
average person to receive our message.

I realize this matter has been argued in court before and defeated but I 
just wonder if through shrewd public campaigning with the right allies we 
could have the perceptions here changed because in actuality our ultimate 
aim is far different then the hemlock society and other right to die groups. 
  Perhaps we should disassociate with them and carry a torch forward just 
for ourselves since our motivations are so vastly different.  Is this simply 
a matter of needing a hundred million dollars for a public relations 
campaign to sway the national opinion on the matter followed by a massive 
legal challenge?  Or could this be done on the relative small scale and 
still be taken all the way to the supreme court?

Sincerely,

John Grigg


Jeff Davis wrote:
From: Jeff Davis <>
Subject: It's NOT suicide

Friends,

     Recent posts concerning pre-mortem suspension and related matters have
repeatedly involved the use of the word "suicide", and in so doing have
tended to suggest that cryonic suspension is in some sense a form of 
suicide.

   HELLO!!!  Time to get a clue, boys and girls!

   Find another term.   Programmed deanimation.  Pre-mortem suspension.
Cryo-supression of biochemical metabolism.  Low-temperature interruption of
cellular homeostasis.  Chemo-structural freeze-lock.  Whatever works for 
you.

   But NOT suicide.  Even post-mortem suspension is "mortem" at all only
because legal and medical groups establish the "authoritative" definition
of death.  As almost all readers of this list should know, at the moment of
declaration of death and for some indeterminate period  thereafter, the
"authoritative" definition of death--which definition carries with it a
sense of irrevocable finality--is not death at all, but rather the
condition more precisely to be described as the-state-wherein-we(meaning
the medical establisment)-can't-do-anything-more-to-make-you-healthy-again,
ie, "beyond help".

   Beyond whose help?  Beyond the medical establishment's help?  Yes.
Beyond all help?  No.

    Cryonic suspension, PARTICULARLY a deliberate, planned, and controlled
pre-mortem suspension, is, by intention, and by the possibility (in my view
the near certainty) of a successful outcome, the very antithesis of suicide.

    So if you find yourself involved in a discussion about
physician-assisted suicide, or insurance/suicide issues, take a moment to
make it clear that, in stark contrast to suicide's despair, desperation,
and tragic loss, cryonics is a pro-actively life-affirming and life-saving
strategy of dynamic optimism.




                        Best, Jeff Davis

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