X-Message-Number: 12628 From: Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:27:42 EDT Subject: neuron info density A couple of recent posts have commented on the paper in the Oct. 1, 1999 issue of SCIENCE by Dodt et al, concerning the density of information storage on the surfaces of individual neurons. The pessimistic inference by the posters was that information storage, perhaps including memories, is much finer-grained than previously thought, and therefore much more easily lost. The first poster (Leitl) reported the resolution of the scan as one "m m" which I took to mean micro-meter or micron, one millionth of a meter. I pointed out that a cubic micron contains a billion cubic nanometers, so on the scale of nanotechnology these would be very large structures, which tends toward optimism. The second poster (Darwin) said the resolution is 10 nanometers, ten nm. I have now printed out the full text of the paper from SCIENCE. The following quotations are relevant to the question of resolution: "A burst of light flashes caused an LTD like depression of glutamate receptor responses, which was highly confined to the region of 'tetanic' stimulation (<10 micrometers)." "We were able to direct a [one micron] UV spot under visual control on the surface of the neuron being studied." "The accuracy obtained was 4 [plus or minus] 1 [microns] laterally......and 18 [plus or minus 2] [microns] axially....Thus, the effective 'glutamate release site' can be regarded roughly as a spot of 10 [micron] diameter.....Thus, the LTD observed iln our experiments had a spatial specificity of at least 10 [microns or micro-meters]. The actual extension of LTD may be even smaller, as the accuracy of the method is limited to the 10 [micron] range." We also know that the wave length of ultra violet light is of the order of 10 microns, and ordinarily the resolution limit is of the same order as the wave length. (Actually, I have always thought that, by using different angles of attack and computer enhancement, one could get much better resolution, in principle.) So Leitl was right in his figures, and I was right, and Darwin was off by a factor of a thousand. None of this is conclusive, of course, in either direction. But surely a pessimistic conclusion is particularly unwarranted. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=12628