X-Message-Number: 12815
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:28:02 -0800
From: Jeff Davis <>
Subject: Optimism, realism, science, faith, etc.

To all who live in these interesting times,

Marty Kardon writes:
>For anyone to elect suspension at this time is ultimately
>an act of almost religous belief in the god of science.  Of course the
>alternative is guaranteed extinction so why not give it a shot?
>
>My fingers will be crossed in the dewar.

Gary Tripp responds:

>Granted, there is much debate over the effectiveness of current
>suspension methods, but when the new 21cm miracles start showing up
>in suspension protocols we shall have justication for our faith.

I would guess that Gary's response is framed to continue the "religious"
metaphor.  The two, religion and cryonics, are comparable, however, only in
the sense that both can provide a defense against the unpleasant emotional
state caused by a fear of death. 

There is no god of science.  There is only science,...and the human beings
we call scientists.  But if we are interested in  playing the "compare and
contrast" game vis a vis gods and scientists, it seems, from where I stand,
to boil down to this: "gods" are the (interminably debatable)
mythical--which is to say non-existant--creations of human imagination and
emotional need.  These gods are utterly worthless to us regarding
assistance with our material reality because either (1) they don't exist or
--if one is incapable of rising above superstitious foolishness-- (2) they
are unreliable.  Scientist on the other hand, despite their inescapable
human limitations, have a dazzling, unbroken record of ever-increasing
effectiveness and reliablity.  When you go to the doctor for a vaccination
or antibiotics the pleasant feeling of confidence you experience has
nothing to do with "faith", and everything to do with the difference
between foolishness and fact.

21st Century Medicine is not in the business of miracles, it is in the
business of fact.  And it is precisely for that reason we get to feel good
about it.

Because of the savage history of religious persecution, our culture has
established a tradition of respecting and protecting religious freedom, the
right to believe and speak and practice as one sees fit.  But other
traditions, those of respect for the truth and freedom of speech frees us
from any compulsion to be deferential to religious nonsense.  Truth is
truth.  Stupid is stupid.  And dead is dead.  Get over it.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Jeffrey Soreff writes:

>I told my relatives that I
>consider it a way of trying to stay alive, albeit a long shot.

I don't know where you got the idea that it's a long shot.

Humanity cut its teeth on technology at the macroscopic scale, and
lately--the last four or five hundred years--has made huge strides, both in
volume of knowledge and in reliability using a technique known as SCIENCE.
You may have heard of it.  

Then Leeuwenhook, Pasteur, Feynman, and Drexler pointed us to the
microscopic arena--molecular even--where all the REALLY important shit goes
on, where mother nature crafts with molecular detail all the particulars of
biology. We've only just begun to intrude into that bailywick, so we don't
have a great deal of accomplishment or sophistication to show just yet.
But where is there any indication that we won't demonstrate a facility
which shall prove--for lack of a more descriptive turn of phrase--"godlike"
in its capability?  To answer my own question, there isn't any.  The road
ahead is clear.  The laws of nature, far from voicing any prohibition,
herald our probable success. 

So the next time you are tempted to adopt the presumed and backward-cloying
beliefs of those of small vision, smaller imagination, or vain orthodoxy,
look instead to the future, to the hundreds, thousands, and tens of
thousands of years that humanity (and posthumanity) will have to accomplish
its "miracles", and try to figure out something which humans could conceive
of that they would NOT be able to achieve.

Far from being a long shot, success is a near certainty.

And by the way, cryonet readers, might I suggest that you take a look at my
tag line--compliments of Ray Charles, or so I'm told--and think about it, I
mean REALLY think about it.  There is no such thing as "hardness", there is
only ignorance.

Time to go.  My dogs are letting me know that its time for chow.  Hope I
haven't offended anyone.


			Best, Jeff Davis

	   "Everything's hard till you know how to do it."
					Ray Charles				

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