X-Message-Number: 13272
From: "Trygve B. Bauge" <>

Subject: Update: Huge quantities of inexpensive liquid nitrogen possibly 
becoming available in 5 years.
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:52:42 +0100

Amended letter as of February the 19th, 2000,
I request feedback so that I can amend this presentation again.

Trygve Bauge

To members of the cryonet mailing list and others.

In Norway we produce large quantities of natural gas.
Traditionally this is sold, pumped back in the ground or just burned
out at the oil fields.
Our parliament wants to build gas powered electrical power plants.
They are in the process of deciding whether to build traditional power
plants that produce a lot of CO2 gas and other polutants, or produce new
pollution free power plants like the one suggested by the large Norwegian
engineering company Aker Maritime:

Aker Maritime's proposal would create huge quantities of liquid nitrogen and
liquid carbon dioxside, as a side effect of their production of electricity.
They plan to release the nitrogen back to the athmosphere or pump it back
into the ground and to store the CO2 in the ocean or on land. Basically it
is a byproduct they would generate in enormous quantities and that they
not yet have a marked for.
The electricity generated would pay for the power plant, and they are not
dependent upon selling the liquid Nitrogen or the liquid Carbondioxside,
it is more seen as a waste product that they are trying to find a way to
dispose of.
On the other hand, even a low resale price on the liquid nitrogen and liquid
would make such power plants more viable, and might be a factor when it is
decided to build it or not.
Some of the CO2 might be used to produce dry ice, for use in the export of
vegetables and frozen fish.

As of today liquid Nitrogen and dry ice is much more expensive in Norway
than in the United States.
In Norway we pay 13 cents and up per liter of liquid nitrogen, (when bought
in millions of liters a year.) and 1.25 dollars and up per kilo of dry ice
bought in thousands of kilos. In smaller quantities the prices are more like
$2.50 per liter of liquid nitrogen and 2 dollars or more per kilo of dry
There is also a 23 % value added tax.
In the United States dry is is about 14 cents a lbs and up (31 cents per
kilo) including 8 percent sales tax, (Colorado dry ice company in Denver),
and liquid nitrogen I seem to recall is 11 cents and up per liter even in
smaller quantities in California. While the prices in the rest of Europe is
somewhere in between the Norwegian and the US prices.

If the proposed power plant is built it would certainly bring down the
prices of liquid nitrogen and dry ice in Norway.

The fish exporters and those involved in fruit and vegetable transport, or
storing of cell samples or termal photography, or super cooled magnets &
super cooled super conductors (electricity without resistance),  would
benefit, as would everyone else using dry ice, or liquid CO2 or liquid

If the power plant set a price lower than that found in the United States,
e.g. a price of less than 11 cents per liter for liquid Nitrogen and 30
per kilo for dry ice, then we would possibly be able to attract from the
rest of the world and to Norway, industries using these coolants.

Since they apparently will be generating more liquid nitrogen than they know
how to sell, an even lower price might possibly be negotiated.
Inexpensive liquid nitrogen, opens up for inexpensive cryonic storage,
and for cryonic storage at a large scale, here in Norway.

If we in the cryonic movement built a terrain integrated storage facilty
next door to the proposed power plant, we could have liquid nitrogen pumped
in at a very low cost, and with no transport cost and no cost for having the
liquid nitrogen added into our storage thanks.

A terrain integrated storage facilty can be built at about $1100 or less per
square meter ($100 or less per square foot, fully finished & including land)
and lasts for centures if we use the technology found at

or check my own home pages
or http://home.powertech.no/trygveb/Myoldweb/Index1995.html
to look at some of my own designs for terrain integrated cryonic labs.

Each person would take up only 0.25 square meter of floor space,
but by having each person pay for 1 full square meter we can get to include
a care taker apartment where some student or author or scientist can live
and get free rent, in return for keeping an eye on the facility.

A 4 person dewar takes up one square meter & sells for about
$16,000-$20,000, (Ten years ago Trans Time used to charge $8,000 for the
space one person takes up in a dewar.) And aside from adjusting the vacume
every few years, the dewars last a long time too.

There are also suspension costs
Varying from $10,000 to well over $100,000 per person dependent upon the
technology, salaries and other surcharges involved.

There is also reanimation costs, to be paid.

But once a strong concrete house is built, and the person is placed in a
dewar, it is the cooling cost that is the only running expense.

That means liquid nitrogen, transport of this, storing it and pumping it
into the dewars.

With the boil off rate being 14 liters and up a day for a 4 person dewar,
we are faced with 3 1/2 liters a day per person at the best, or about 1300
liters a year per person at the best, more when the dewars are not full.

At 11 cents per liter that is more than $ 140 a year, at 19 cents a liter it
more like $250 a year.
Buying and adding liquid nitrogen might today easily run $250 a year per
frozen patient even with unpaid volunteer workers at the cryonic facility.
And much more when the dewars are not used to capacity, workers are
paid, or some overhead organization is taking a piece too.
Just one full time salaried position easily adds $20.000 a year. Divided
upon the number of patients this easily adds up, especially in the start up
when one has less than 100 patients.
To pay for the cooling expense at 5 % annual interest one has to invest
from $ 5000 and up, e.g. $5000 to cover $250 a year.

Some of the existing cryonic facilities request a much higher initial
investment per patient, to pay for the long run cooling,
e.g. from about $ 10,000 ($28,000 minus the dewar and suspension cost)
at CI, to well over $50,000 at some of the other cryonic facilities.
Trans Time used to charge $500-600 a month just for cooling.
And  I have been paying something similar each month to keep my
grand father on dry ice in Colorado.
At 5 % annnual interest one then has to set aside an initial investment
of well over $120.000 to cover long term storage, and likely more to
counter inflation too. Some suggesting 2 1/2 percent average annual return
on investment after adjustment for inflation and investment losses, to be a
safer standard over the centuries.

If the liquid nitrogen instead of being heated and released back into the
atmosphere or ground, instead was pumped directly from the power plant and
into the dewars at one cent per liter (plus 23% value added tax)
the annual cost for 1300 liters would still be less than 16 dollars.
at 2 cents per liter it would be less than $ 32 etc.
That would take a much smaller initial investment for continuous cooling,
e.g. $320 and up with 5 % interest rate . $320 to cover $ 16. $640 to cover
$32 etc.

Furthermore, with inexpensive liquid nitrogen one could possibly look at
less expensive larger storage tanks with higher evaporation rates and still
get lower entry cost for cryonic suspension, e.g. save more on the dewar
than one has to  invest to pay for more liquid nitrogen.

Even with existing dewars the price of cryonics will go down:
$10,000 and up for the suspension at a next door hospice.
$  1,100 or less for one square meter of storage building,
$  4,900 or less for the space in a dewar,
$     500 or less to pay one's part of a 100 meter liquid nitrogen pipeline.
$     700 invested in power plant shares, with interest (minus reinvestment
              compensate for inflation & investment losses) paying the
              liquid nitrogen consumption.
$     400 invested with compound interest to cover reanimation
$     400 invested with compound interest to cover unforseen expenses.
$18,000 as the minimum suspension cost.
(or $ 10,000 less than the least expensive solution today.)
Those affording to pay more, can of course still set aside more money for
unforseen expenses, emergency handling, research and for their own
reanimation (or as a reinsurance pay for coinsurance or sign up with several
cryonics outfits to have something to fall back on if their original care
taker for some reason fails.).

What I am saying is that:
Inexpensive liquid nitrogen,
combined with long lasting terrain integrated storage facilities,
with built in care taker apartments,
and the use of larger dewars,
will open for inexpensive cryonic storage
which will open for large scale cryonic storage.

Such scenarios will also cost less to maintain, and make it less
important to maintain a large investment portfolio over the centuries.

Anyway if the price of liquid nitrogen and liquid CO2 in Norway falls below
the prices in the United States, this will open for patients being stored
less expensively in Norway than in the United States.
In which case Americans and Europeans, might look at storing their patients
here rather than in the United States.

World wide there are almost 100 people in cryonic suspension today.
100 patients in 25 four person dewars, would consume at least 130.000 liter
liquid nitrogen a year.  4000 people on the other hand would consume
about 5.2 million liter liquid nitrogen, and such a volume can be bought at
13 cents a liter in Norway as of today even without the new power plant.
5.2 million liters of liquid nitrogen would cost about 5.2 million Norwegian
kroner or $650.000 in Norway today. (Possibly plus 23 % value added tax,
though the later is not always charged on funeral expenses, and services and
lots of other items are extempt as well, it is more a political issue.)

Other points to consider is the fact that a gas powered electrical power
plant very likely will be built somewhere along our coast line.
The coast line is very windy and we have lots of smaller streams all over
the place. A cryogenic facility can easily get all its electrical needs
covered by its own sturdy wind or stream generator. In case the local liquid
nitrogen production was to stop after a few generations, one would have the
option of switching to electrical recycling and recooling of the nitrogen.

I have spoken at length both to Oscar Graff, the engineer in charge of the
proposed power plant at Aker Maritime,
and to Reidar Nesje, head of marketing in Norway's
largest manufacturer of liquid Nitrogen: Hydrogas, a subdivision of  Norsk
Hydro, which also happens to be Norways largest company.
The latter expressed interest in investing in Aker Maritime's proposed power
plant, & both expressed interest in sale of liquid nitrogen to the cryonics
If the power plant is built they would still have more of the stuff than
they can possible sell.

The timing is about 5 years, with $ 2.5 million already having been spent by
Aker Maritime on the preplanning.
Their plan is apparently to build a small pilot power plant at the cost of
$125 million to $ 500 million, over the next few years,

Unless of course our government opts to build the older more poluting
power plant model that does not produce liquid nitrogen, but releases much
more CO2 and other polutants, and might run into problems with the
standards set in the Kyoto agreement.


Trygve Bauge

Feedback is welcome.

Life-Extension Systems, the Norwegian Icebathing Assoc. & Action 88.
To borrow a VHS presentation of my work, send $50 to Trygve Bauge
c/o Aksjon 88, Pb. 59 Hovseter, 0705 Oslo, Norway,Ph 47-2214-8078
E-mail:    http://www.powertech.no/~trygveb/

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