X-Message-Number: 13699 Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:38:53 -0700 From: Peter Merel <> Subject: Identity: Can I kill the original ... Identity is the perennial bugbear of this list, and I must apologize to those who are tired of it. To tell the truth I'm tired myself, but it's better to post and put an end, or at least lift the conversation, than to let this thread glacially recapitulate what we've heard so many times. So: That someone's "essence" should be merely a character in a story they invent about themselves seems inconceivable. Myself is plainly a concrete thing, either dead or alive, here or not here. Though physical science can't detect them, our identities are surely unique and indivisible, immutable components of the universe as unchanging as the stars. Well, no, that seems a little strong. The stars, we know, are far from unchanging. Plainly human identity is more immutable than stars. It's as immutable as the universe itself. Hmm. Well, the universe apparently goes through fundamental changes from time to time. Identity must be more immutable than the universe, I feel it in my bones. Unless - just perhaps - I'm making too much of identity. Or at least misunderstanding something here. After all I've been mistaken about things in the past. Even if my identity is more permanent than the ages, my understanding certainly isn't, and my understanding of my identity could easily be flawed. Well then, let me take that first assumption, that my identity isn't just a character in a story I invent to account for what I sense. Maybe that's not a very good assumption. If we question that one, then identity might not be a thing at all. It could be more like an adjective, like right or left. What's all this stuff about love and beauty then? What about all my friends and relations? They don't know me as just an adjective. They know me as a process, an ongoing dynamic relationship. I've got soul, dang it! And if I'm an adjective, or a locus for relationships with others in a social network, then what about these memories I carry around with me? They seem mighty important to me. Well, okay, granted they're mostly memories about people and places I've cherished, relationships I've enjoyed - but there's still a whole swag of memories that operate at a more basic level. Maybe they're my identity and the rest is just memories of externality. Hmm. That's a pretty fine distinction to draw. It seems like a lot, maybe most of these basic memories, things like how to put words together, how to surf, what to eat, how to look at trees, and so on, are things I learned as I went along. Not all of them, of course, but it's only fair to say most of them. I had to be born with some minimal abilities or I couldn't have learned all these things. Assuming there wasn't anything special about my gestation, I suppose the identity I didn't learn as I went must be encoded in my genes. But genes are plainly just information, and what's more it seems like it's the abilities they enable, rather than the genes themselves, that are important to my identity. You can take a hair that's fallen off me, or a skin flake or nail clipping containing millions of copies of my genes and burn it up, and that certainly won't affect my identity at all. But now it seems like there's nothing left. We've stripped away everything external, and I still have this fundamental sense of identity. I can still feel it in my bones. What's up with that? I'm familiar with similar phenomena to this. I've seen optical tricks that make straight lines seem to curve, or black and white boxes flash with colors. Illusions. Given that I've been able to exclude every empirically external or received part of myself, and still have this strong impression of my identity, I guess I have to think I'm nothing but an illusion too. That doesn't answer, though. If all I am is illusory, what about the rest of the world? Is it all just some story I invented to account for my sensations? Where do those sensations come from then? This is starting to sound awful philosophical. What's going on here has to be a concrete thing. Let's stipulate, for a moment, that the world, all its phenomena, history, and future, are dramatic in nature. Let's suppose that my brain is a mechanism for creating and maintaining this drama, and that a dramatic understanding conveys a biological advantage. Predictability. If I can represent the world as drama then I can hunt more easily, anticipate danger, and become literate. Really handy stuff. A mechanism like that seems like it's almost an inevitable product of evolution, nothing spooky about it. It seems fair to say, then, that my identity is another part of this dramatic world. Not an illusion, but not as immutable as the ages either. What goes on beneath the drama - the various levers, pulleys and props behind the proscenium of my brain - is a flowing process I can't describe as drama. If you duck back there the dramatic understanding naturally vanishes like grease-paint, and inevitably my identity, a character in the drama, goes with it. If we can reconstruct the drama that I use to represent me and mine, there's no essential difference between one production and another. There may be a different theater, or a different audience. The natural process of metabolism replaces every atom in my body every 7 years, so that certainly doesn't require any new-fangled technology for me to understand it. If this view is fair then I need have no fear of uploading or transporting; so long as memories, processes, and relationships are not dramatically perturbed, my identity will naturally be preserved. In fact, when I think about it, it's faith in this dramatic continuity that permits me to happily close my eyes and go to sleep at night, content that I'll still be me in the morning. If one day I'm uploaded and copied, if there's more than one of me, and if I can afford the costs associated with running more than one copy, I won't be especially perturbed. If any one of me needs to be killed, I'll be content so long as the play is written down in a form that can be revived for an appreciative audience. All the world's a stage ... Peter Merel. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=13699