X-Message-Number: 13708 From: Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 06:54:50 EDT Subject: Re: Msg #13693 brain simulation on computers > Message #13693 > Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:44:55 -0400 > From: Thomas Donaldson <> > Subject: CryoNet #13690 - #13691 > > About computer uploading and copies of ourselves (computers or not): > > The fundamental problem every discussion of this possibility (that I've > seen) seems to ignore is that we first must understand how our brain > works in order to copy it... and we haven't attained that understanding, > yet. Nor is doing so a simple problem. I would accept the notion that >our brain consists of lots of neural nets with another single computer > producing our awareness, but that is hardly enough information to > actually do a copy. > > Problems: the neural net is not one of those used in computing, and > operates quite differently. Not only do neurons have multiple > connections rather than just one, but our brain produces new neurons, > and the connections change. >> > A first generation "brain on computer" will simulate the neuron activities, that is what we see at small scale today. If we want a true simulation, we need indeed to understand everything about the brain. Some "secondary" chemical effects may be hard to include in that scheme; So, I think a real brain on machine will use another system. I think a second generation simulator, will in fact simulates a space domain with a 3 D grid. At each crossing of the grid, there will be a possibility to simulate a small molecule, that molecule will be allowed to interact with nearby crossing positions or move to such a position. If we know how such molecules behave and we can get a list of them in the brain ( or any other organ) with their position, then we can run a brain simulation even if we don't understant how it works. To have a perfect simulation, the grid unit length must simply be half the mean diameter of a molecule (from Shanon's theorem on sampling data). Assume the grid mesh is one nanometer, a 10 cm cube will contains 10^24 crossings. This is a big number, but optical or quantum computers may indeed be up to the job 20 years or so from now. Yvan Bozzonetti. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=13708