X-Message-Number: 13876
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 13:24:29 -0400
From: James Swayze <>

Subject: RE: Affordability, supply & demand, advertising, life insurance and LN2
References: <>

RE: Affordability, supply & demand, advertising, life insurance and LN2 


Let me first apologize to everyone as this is going to be a long one...I hope. 

I've been watching the various arguments going back and forth regarding the high

of cryonics and the reasonable causes for it. The word reasonable here really 

applies for those of us who understand the worth of cryonics and the 

for the future and who are able to overlook the fact it is not yet proven. For 
uninformed person the cost is certainly not reasonably explained. When I say

uninformed I refer to, I would hazard a guess, 99.99% of the worlds population. 
would guess also that less than 1% of the worlds population has even heard of
cryonics mush less understand it.

When I tell someone about it most often they know nothing about it or they say 
"Oh do

you mean cryogenics?". Misnaming the term is a clear indication of their level 
misunderstanding. Out of the general population of the world, not just the

technologically developed countries, how many people are even science fiction 
fans I
wonder? I would bet that far less than those are scientifically informed.

It should come as no surprise that cryonics is not widely known. How much media
coverage does it really get? Not much. The occasional ill informed treatment by

hollywood. These are hardly ever positive...take the "Phantasm 3" movie as an 

or even "Austin Powers" (the first one). I watch every science and technology 
show I

can find time for on the science oriented cable channels. To date I've seen less
a half dozen documentaries that mention cryonics. I've never seen one dedicated

solely to cryonics. Would a documentary solely dedicated to cryonics be helpful?

but only a little because it won't reach your average person especially if they 

tuned into some mind numbing sitcom. Let's face it most people only want to 

the reality of their quiet lives of desperation. They don't want to deal with 

or their mortality, just take their minds off the serious for a few hours then 
to the reality of surviving another day. Many people can't even be persuaded to

provide themselves adequate health care insurance and life insurance or 
for "normal" circumstances let alone something clearly outside the envelope.

We need a "Mission Impossible 2" or a "Raiders of the Lost Ark" for cryonics! We

a block buster movie that most people will go see that is centered strongly 

cryonics. Has it been done? Some would say yes and I can think of two movies 

cryonics was central to the story, but I'd say they weren't what I am calling 
for. In

the first place neither could be considered block buster. In the second neither 

even close to accurate. In the third their plots drifted far from the mechanism 
how the characters got where they wound up.

Cryonics must be central to the story. Also it would be a good opportunity to 

with the religious and environmental objection issues. Perhaps a story where a 

comes back to save the earth from destruction and had he not been frozen all are

doomed. Maybe the hero is secretly frozen because some religious zealots teamed 

wrongly informed anti technology environmental zealots manage to outlaw 

Here is an opportunity to make the general public sympathetic to the legal 

involved such as estate preservation and the rest. The use of nanotechnology can

introduced to show reason for hope that, though unproved, cryonics will work. 

that it requires nano but nano should be made more widely understood as well. 
the hero has the key to anti aging and relative immortality but dies before

perfecting it for general use or something such. This is another method to 

what cryonics is truly about...immortalism! I know we have among us the 
and talent to put something of this nature together.

After cryonics becomes more widely known then the factors of supply and demand 
can be

considered as applying. Then advertising can come into play and not be such a 

Personally I think a suspension should cost about $10,000. It should be close to

cost of a funeral but not ridiculously low. People should have to pay enough to 

it seriously. It's something that requires advanced planning. Funerals are often

to be paid for by relatives and especially the children of the deceased. I doubt

funeral insurance already in existence, so called purple shield, is widely 

For one thing the commercials for it are down right morbid. Again no one wants 
to be

reminded of their mortality. However, cryonics needn't be considered so. It 
should be

advertised as simply putting life on hold for a time. A commercial could easily 

note of a number of scientific and medical advances that relate to cryonics that

potential user can see as incentives. Anti aging and advances in the curative 

of modern medicine are but a few. It could be pointed out that cures for cancer 
other diseases are on the increase and so those that are suffering it or have

relatives that are would be made to see the benefit of putting "life on hold" 

they are available. An analogy that anyone can relate to is the rapid advance of

aeronautics. For instance an announcer could say, "We've progressed from no 
flight at

all to space travel in a single lifetime and more is yet to come. Imagine 

what we can do with medicine! Why miss out when it what you need could be just 
the corner".

Now what about insurance? Funeral insurance exists, why not straight cryonics

insurance? Perhaps someone who knows the working risk mechanism for funeral 

could help us here. How about group plans? The risk factor for the insurer would

course be greater than normal life insurance because potentially every client 
to use the service.  Not everyone will be able to though. This is so for those

involved in cryonics now. I'm reminded of the recent deaths of friends of this 

that were not able to be suspended. The number who would be unfortunate enough 
to be

in the wrong place at death to be suspended would of course go up if the cost 
brought down so more people could be involved. This might provide the margin an
insurer needs. Another incentive for people to choose such a policy and for an

insurer to offer such a policy could be that the policy would convert to a 

funeral policy at a much lower cost to the insurer should they be unfortunate 
to not be in the right place at death.

Cryonics needs to be shared with more regular people. Right now we who are 

are a tiny tiny minority, even smaller yet are those actually signed up. We can 
perceived of as being elitist. I'm reminded of the bitter sentiment fostered in

everyday folk by the extreme right politically towards the so called elitist 

I'd hate for the same to be used against cryonics enthusiasts. As long as it is 
widely understood the unknown becomes fodder for the deathists to use against
cryonics and immortalism. We need to come down from our crystal palace on the

mountain and share our dream with the common folk. Not that any of us would want

keep it to ourselves, but price and lack of general knowledge alone accomplish 
well enough.

Now as to some of the causes of the high cost. It shouldn't be the 
responsibility of

the cryonics organization to keep a trust for reanimation nor for preservation 

estate. Right now it's necessary because of the legalities involved. I feel that

cryonics became more widely known and hence the legal land mines as well, people

would begin to vote them out of existence. Perhaps reanimation should remain the

responsibility of the cryonics firm but maybe it could be elective. Maybe some 

pay less and take their chances that the medical industry would provide the 
means. Or

perhaps another industry could evolve to fill this niche. Along with putting 

something for estate preservation people might  opt to entrust seed money to 
investment firm made especially for this purpose. This would have the effect of

removing from general knowledge the often asked question or remark I've heard 

the uninitiated, such as, "Oh I heard of a cryonics company that was only in it 

the dead peoples money" or "I've heard of that....I just thought it was a scam 
to get

hold of the estates of foolish dreamers". An investment firm made solely for the

purpose of cryonics patient's estate preservation could both create wealth for 

suspended customer and profit for the firm from a minimal investment. This is so

especially if they took the very long term view. Removing this responsibility 
the cryonics firm should result in a savings from lowered legal costs, less

paperwork, fewer lawsuits and I'm sure the more imaginative than I can think of 

Such an investment firm could gather the strength to take on the legal issues

involved. It would have the power and the political clout to fight and lobby for

delicate issues such as cloning. Even more power, wealth and profit could be 

by the same type of firm or consortium of like firms by also providing the 
insurance policies. Relieving cryonics firms from these responsibilities and
headaches should free them to expend their moneys and energies more on research
product improvement.

Now as to LN2 evaporation, I believe there has to be a better way. Thanks to 

that took the time to explain the physics to me. I've been chewing that nut for 

now. Being a problem solving type person it just bugs the hell out of me the 

of waste this process involves. I find it so hard to believe that a closed 

couldn't be made and made to be cheaper in the long run. Emphasis on long term 

I have in mind a system that refrigerates and recompresses the evaporated gas 
back to

a liquid in a closed loop recirculating system. Heat can be scavenged in many 

and can even be used to provide some of the power such as with materials that 
use a

temperature differential to produce electric current. The additional power 
needed can

be derived from solar, wind power, hydro-electric or geothermal depending on the

area.  With Alcor for an example, solar and wind I believe are good candidates 
their location. The right combination would have them totally off grid and even
selling some power back even with some stored for reserves.

I think the cheapest would be a linked system where each dewar would not have 

own closed loop. There would of course be pressure safety valves in redundancy. 

would also be a backup or two for the recirculation/recooling apparatus. Heat 

into the dewars could be kept to a minimum by lowering their outside environment

temperature. It seems to me they should be kept in a well below freezing 

room to begin with. Having this exist below ground where the temperature is 
lower and
constant helps even more. It makes it safer as well.

All you engineers tell me if this is a viable start on a system. First the

evaporating gas enters an expansion chamber to immediately deal with the 
pressure. To

turn heat into mechanical energy the gas could pass through a turbine at the 

end. To further convert heat the other end could be a piston that the gas would 

to turn more of the heat energy into mechanical energy. Plenty of devices could 

attached to scavenge this energy back into the loops apparatus. An alternative 
be a chamber with a balloon inside. As the balloon fills with N gas it expands

against the walls of the chamber reducing the area for normal air. This air is 

out past another turbine as an alternative to the piston method for converting 

of the heat energy. A second like chamber would be connected so that as one 

the compressed normal air flows to the other to collapse the balloon full of N 
of the

other chamber. In alternating fashion the expansion energy of one helps conduct 
the N

to the next stage. One-way valves and alternating valves help control this. Also

materials used for balloon and chamber can be such as to exploit the temperature

differential method of creating electrical current, even further robbing heat 
from the gas.

The next stage is a heat exchanger where refrigerated coolant further cools the 

gas. Now from here it goes through the process that I assume normally creates 
LN2. I

don't know how this is done except that compressing it is involved. Some help 
please providing I'm not totally off my rocker.

On the other hand, here's a thought. Buy a LN2 production plant and keep 
boiled off LN2. I don't mean a factory. Read the following then go to



Cryomech, Inc. manufactures reliable, fully automatic 10 and 40 liter per day 
Nitrogen Plants

(LNP's). The LNPs require only electrical power and compressed air to produce 
LN2. A

generator separates nitrogen from the other components of the air, without any 
parts. The

98% pure nitrogen flows into a 35 or 160 liter dewar, where it is liquefied at 
cold end of either

our AL60 or AL200 Cryorefrigerator. The liquid level in the dewar is 
controlled and

observable at all times to the operator. The LN2 is easily transferred from the 
using the low

loss, vacuum insulated extraction valve and line conveniently located on the 
The LNPs have

been designed for ease of operation and do not require a full-time, trained 

Cryomech, Inc. extends a warranty on all parts and workmanship for three years 
8,000 hours,

whichever comes first, after satisfactory installation, provided the owner 
operates the
equipment according to the specifications and operating procedures set forth by


This device is about the size of a paint shop air compressor. Pipe the nitrogen 

boiled off air to the plane and make it even more efficient. Oh btw, guess what 
they make?


Cryomech, Inc. manufactures single and two stage cryorefrigerators based on both

Gifford-McMahon and the Pulse Tube Cycles. The Pulse Tube Cryorefrigerator 
cryogenic temperatures as low as 2.7K without displacer motion, eliminating

vibrations and increasing mean time between maintenance. All two stage units 

cooling below 10K with a higher temperature stage to cool shields, leads and 

to 30-80K. Our single stage cryorefrigerators now cool to minimum temperatures 

approximately 10K, with the largest unit producing a maximum cooling capacity of

watts at 77K . Cryomech, Inc. manufactures water and air cooled compressors for 
cryorefrigerator. Cryomech, Inc. has manufactured cryorefrigerators since 1963.

Cryomech's Standard Gifford-McMahon Cycle Cryorefrigerators are either single or

stage. The AL-Series single stage G-M's, reach a low temperature of 25K in 20 

and are maximized for price and capacity from 10-80K. The GB-Series two stage 

cool down to 6.5K on the second stage with another stage, the first stage, which

supplies cooling from 10-80K. When cooling devices to below 20K, the second 
stage of

the G-M supplies the 20K while the first stage supplies the power to intercept 
at a higher temperature, therefore unloading the second stage.


Now all that's left to do is hook these up to a constant FREE power source. How 
can it be? ;)

James Swayze

"Quod de futuris non est determinata omnino veritas"
       NOSTRADAMUS 15TH Century

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