X-Message-Number: 14067 From: "George Smith" <> References: <> Subject: Re: Coming back from the dead - commenrts Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:51:49 -0700 In message #14057, John Krug mentioned a TV show on communication with the dead and speculated on "talking to" those already in cryonics suspension. And, in reply, Scott Badger listed some valid questions regarding this and commented how such might be better delivered on "the Comedy Channel" (instead of the "Sci Fi Channel"). Ladies and Gentlemen, if we ever truly wish to expand the ranks of our membership in cryonics, I feel it would be wise to understand the beliefs of the vast majority of candidates out there. For example, polls have indicated that about 80% of Americans believe in some form of afterlife for the human personality. If the cryonics movement aligns itself with a rigid materialist dogma, we LOSE that 80% of the population immediately. I would suggest that this figure is actually much, much higher than just 80%, by the way. Let's take this a step further. If YOU are among the estimated 20% who do NOT believe in some form of after death survival of the human personality but someone ridicules someone you personally respect who DOES, will you not tend to feel alienated from the ridiculer and his or her position? Isn't that a normal human tendency? And the 80% figure does not come strictly from religious beliefs or folklore. The near death experience (NDE), whether you believe it to be hallucinatory or not, has been conservatively estimated to have been experienced by over eight million Americans with the number continuing to grow daily as modern medical procedures continue to restore to life those who have experienced clinical death (as defined currently). Why is this significant? It is important because serious long term psychological studies concur that the NDE produces profound and long lasting personality changes in those who experience it. (One study was summarized in the book "Transformed By The Light" by Melvin Morse, MD in 1992, ISBN: 0-8041-1183-9, and there are others). Now think for a moment what this implies. Just in the USA we have an estimated one in twenty individuals who are now returning from clinical death with experiences which cause them to feel certain that there is life after death. Each of these one in twenty has family members and friends who are exposed to their direct (and lasting!) testimony. Further, the broadcast and print mass media now have venues which do not ridicule but report these issues popularly so that the social stigma is greatly reduced compared to even just ten years ago. In other words, based upon what we best understand about human psychology and social movements, it is entirely reasonable to expect that not only do the MAJORITY (over 80%) of the American population accept that an afterlife is real but this percentage is GROWING. So does it make sense to alienate as many as we can by ridiculing their beliefs? Or would it be wiser for ALL concerned to position cryonics more honestly as what it really is - a life extension procedure. If we promote cryonics as a means to extend physical LIFE without implying that we are intruding upon the issue of a non-physical AFTERLIFE, we do not automatically alienate well over 80% of the population. That seems to me to be a sensible approach. In the recent popular film "What Dreams May Come" (with Robin Williams, the comedian!) most of these popular beliefs were explored most dramatically. Yet even in this presentation of the afterlife belief system, the film concluded with the need for the hero and heroine to return to physical life to complete their need to feel and express love. In other words, behind the afterlife beliefs of the majority, there remains a deep and abiding respect and yearning for a fulfillment HERE, in the physical. Cryonics is perfectly aligned with this deeper human desire, in my opinion. We should capitalize on this fact and not just alienate the majority. I personally feel that the NDE issue remains a potential springboard for privately attracting, not losing, cryonics candidates. The personality benefits from the NDE have been carefully surveyed, tested and documented. These incidents involve people who have been clinically dead for only minutes. I cannot help but wonder what testimony might result from the first resuscitated cryonaut who has been clinically dead for decades. This issue also plays an important role in several major world religions regarding predictions of the dead who return to life, the return of an "Elect" who possess a greater understanding than "mere mortals", the beliefs of millions in the return from the dead or "heaven" of godlike spiritual leaders, messiahs, boddhisattwas, etc. It does not require much imagination to see the cryonics option as a commitment to these religious ideals to bring those prophesies into completion. In this arena it would be wise, I feel, to tread most softly. Those of you who feel that all or most of these beliefs are superstitious nonsense should consider that we are directly involved with the most primal questions and beliefs of humanity. We would be wise, I believe, to recognize that this IS the situation and use it to assist in our goals rather than to alienate those who can aid our goals to be achieved. We are all in this together. Like it or not. George Smith Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14067