X-Message-Number: 14091
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:05:34 -0400
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Re: NDE, personal experience
References: <>

All,


I know this is one slightly related to the subject under discussion but I 
thought my own
personal NDE experience might be found interesting. See below.

CryoNet wrote:

>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message #14085
> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:19:27 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Scott Badger <>
> Subject: Re: Bringing back the dead
>

<snip>

>
>
> You go on to talk about NDE's.  I've read probably
> 10-12 books on this topic by Moody, Ring, Sabom, and
> Morse (all Dr.'s, I believe). I regard NDE's as a very
> interesting phenomenon and even have a research idea
> aimed at determining the veracity of NDE'rs claims.
> Most resuscitations of "clinically" dead people are
> done in the field by emergency medical personnel these
> days. I've been told that the improvements in
> equipment available to these technicians are such that
> if patients can't be revived by the time they arrive
> at the hospital's emergency room, then the odds are
> low that they will be revived at all.
>
> Sooo, we do a double blind design where various
> symbols or numbers are placed on top of the paramedic
> truck and changed everytime the truck goes out. One of
> the most commonly reported aspects of NDE's is
> floating several feet above everyone else in the area
> and looking down watching the action. If true, then
> NDE'rs should be able to identify the symbol when they
> are revived.
>
> The biggest problem I see with NDE's is that many of
> the experiences described have been duplicated
> artificially by the likes of Wilder Penfield and his
> electro-stimulation of various regions in the temporal
> region of the brain.
>
>

<snip>

>
>
> George also stated:
>
> "I personally feel that the NDE issue remains a
> potential springboard for privately attracting, not
> losing, cryonics candidates.  The personality
> benefits from the NDE have been carefully surveyed,
> tested and documented. These incidents involve people
> who have been clinically dead for only minutes.  I
> cannot help but wonder what testimony might result
> from the first resuscitated cryonaut who has been
> clinically dead for decades."
>
> Interesting.  Are you proposing that people may be
> more attracted to cryonics if we suggest that
> suspendees are likely having extended NDE's and will
> probably come back with great personality enhancements
> or special knowledge of the afterworld because of
> their extended stay? That's definitely an idea I've
> not heard before, George.
>
> I agree that we all need to be careful to insure that
> prospects do not develop the impression that being
> pro-cryonics is anti-spiritual/religion in any sense.
> But I would like to think that those associated with
> Cryonics would generally be regarded as highly
> rational, critical thinkers, not prone to endorse the
> plethora of paranormal claims out there. We're
> regarded as being fringe enough as it is.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Scott Badger
>


I like Scot's suggestion for the paramedic truck and it segue's into my 
experience very

nicely. Some may know that I got hurt and became the quadriplegic I am today 
from a

fall. I'll forego the the details of how and why I fell to keep this reasonably 
short.

It is no secret and I'll gladly share why and how with anyone requesting to 
know. What I

remember now of the event and what I remembered just after it and especially 
some time

in-between is poignant to this issue. I had two occasions for NDE experiences. 
The first

was after impact with the ground the second was a week or so later with a 
cardiac
arrest.


Now looking back at the first I distinctly remember the falling and what led to 
it and

hitting the ground. BANG like a gunshot to the back of my head was the sound of 
the back

of my head and my upper spine impacting the concrete. Then I was out. Gone. Not 
aware of

anything. Then suddenly I was awake and could see red and blue light dancing off
the

walls and nearby objects. This was of course the emergency lights of the 
paramedic

vehicle. Now I'll move on to the next experience with the cardiac arrest but 
will return
to this. I have a reason for this circuitous meander.


I had immediately developed double pneumonia due to the fact the shock to my 
spine and

swelling damage had made my lungs not work so well. The medical staff would 
insert a

catheter into my nose and make me swallow to get it into my lungs and with this 
they

would suction the junk I was incapable of coughing up. The proper procedure was 
to apply

suction for a few seconds then give me oxygen to replace air and especially 
oxygen that

had just been removed. One day the assistant responsible for applying the oxygen
simply

forgot to. All the air from my lungs was sucked out and it starved my heart 
which

promptly objected by stopping. I woke up the next day and was told what 
happened.


But wait what about my NDE? There wasn't one. I wouldn't have known I had been 
"coded"

if not told so. However, having been told so I did develop a sort of "feeling" 
for what

it was like. I recently recounted this for a religious friend of mine that is 
prone to

believe NDE's are really spiritual. I said to him it was darkness, close and 
comforting,

warm and cozy blacker than black nothingness. The thing is this is what my mind 
MADE UP

of the actual lack of an experience. It had to fill in the gap. Lacking any good
memory

of the event the best it could do was develop a feeling. A comforting one at 
that.


Now back to the first. It is important to note that my family is deeply 
christian. The

why of how I got to where I was deeply concerned them for my "immortal soul", so
to

speak. I had been fiercely independent before this occurred. I was large, 
strong,

intelligent and not afraid of anything or anyone. I was all I needed and 
especially

didn't need any god. I felt invincible before but now suddenly found myself 
definitely

brought low and made vulnerable. There is an additional reason I won't go into 
now but

it all added up to my accepting my family's wish for me to convert to 
christianity.

Overwhelmed with vulnerability and guilt and grief for what I had put my family 
through

I finally relinquished. I only explain this to help understand how this affects 
the
first NDE.


Now sometime after the first experience I began to remember the event as though 
looking

at it from a third person point of view. I could see myself lying there. To this
day I

could make an accurate drawing, I wager, of the event and the particulars. I can

remember how it felt back then to have this unfolding recollection. I could 
reenact it

in my mind. I am floating above looking down at everything. I see the ambulance 
and me

sprawled out lying in my mothers arms and suddenly I am back in my body and 
watching the

dancing blue and red lights and unable to understand why I feel nothing at all, 
not even
pain.


It is important to understand I am very spatial in my thinking. I can see in my 
minds

eye anything I wish in full three dimensional detail. I have often done mind 
exercises

where I take a walk around my body and look at the back of me from a third 
person point

of view. I believe my mind and that of anyone with good spatial skills capable 
of taking

partial positional information for familiar objects and extrapolating a 
reasonable

facsimile of what otherwise may be out of sight. I believe now that is what my 
NDE truly

was. My mind merely filled in gaps under the influence of a new paradigm that 
expected
certain activities to exist.


Well that's my experience. Now I have one rhetorical question. How would a 
spirit,

having no eyes, see any message placed atop anything for experimental 
verification

later? I submit this obvious lack of ability for sensory input should clue 
people to

this truly only being an internal experience. No one will ever accurately tell 
what has

been placed atop things for this verification. This is because they won't have 
that data

to pool with what their minds have gathered of the surroundings beforehand or 
expected
common surroundings for the making of their own facsimile.

James
--
Some of our views are spacious
some are merely space--RUSH

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