X-Message-Number: 14098 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:35:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Ruthanna R Gordon <> Subject: introduction and Re: Bringing Back the Dead I'm finally delurking, partially to correct a misconception, but mostly because it seems silly to lurk around people who I hope will be the familiar faces at the beginning of my second lifetime. My name is Ruthanna Gordon. I'm a graduate researcher in Cognitive Psychology. I study memory--not the neurological underpinnings (although I do know something about those)--but the basic patterns of what actually gets remembered, forgotten, and reconstructed in the course of normal thinking. Hopefully this can eventually lead to more techniques for increasing memory's reliability--certainly an awareness of the flaws of the basic human model is neccessary if we are ever to improve on it! I also consider myself a science fiction writer (albeit 'in progress' meaning that I'm about halfway through a novel that is currently going very slowly due to my studies and will probably get finished sometime after my degree). I was introduced to cryonics by a friend of mine in college, and my partner and I intend to start the sign-up process later this year. Right now I'm beginning to look at the pros and cons of the different organizations and methods. Alcor seems to have the most advanced techniques, but since after getting my PhD I intend to live in Massachusetts until I can get off-planet my chances might be higher with one of the more easterly organizations. Fortunately money is not an issue--I can scrape up enough for dues and life insurance, and even a small chance at immortality with a healthy mind and body is literally priceless. I'm also one of the near-invisible minority of religious cryonicists. Specifically, I'm Judeo-Pagan, with the Pagan half of that leaning heavily towards Wicca. Scott Badger said: > "Respectfully submitted," precisely because I wanted > to emphasize my belief that everyone's right to their > opinion is to be respected regardless of whether I > agree with it or not. My apologies to Mr. Krug if he > felt personally insulted in some manner. ...but goes on to say: > Though I try to be respectful, I admit that I am more > openly skeptical of psychics, astrology, wiccan, > telekinesis, palmistry, dousing, and a host of other > pseudoscientific notions. In addition, I am proud of > my open skepticism. I carry the banner of science and > I voice my criticisms of these practitioners because I > believe they often bilk the public with their scams > and I believe that pseudoscience in general undermines > rational thought and behavior in our population. Some These things are not all in the same category. Wicca is not 'pseudoscience' but religion, and no more claims domain over science than do Judaism or most sects of Christianity. Less, in fact, because no one is expected or required to prioritize some orthodox set of beliefs over the evidence of science. Most of the Neopagans I know (including the Wiccans) are well-educated people who keep more up-to-date on current science than the majority of the population. The ethics of the religion are libertarian/anarchistic ('And it harm none, do as ye will' in place of chapters full of laws designed for primitive desert-dwelling nomads) and to a certain extent extropian. One of the guests at the Starwood Festival last year (a Neopagan festival that attracts everything from Druids to members of the Church of All Worlds to Wiccans) was David Jay Brown, who had a talk on life extension techniques including cryonics. It was extremely well-attended and many of the other attendees were also cryonicists. I realize your views expressed above are based on some extremely common misconceptions (many people consider both Wicca *and* cryonics attempts to 'bilk the public with their scams.' Wicca costs me a couple of hundred a year (mostly travel expenses to go to gatherings where I get to talk to a lot of interesting people). Cryonics will cost me considerably more once I join a society, but I don't regret the money spent on either. I appologize for lecturing and hope you don't take it the wrong way. I'm not being insulted or attempting to insult--only to dump more knowledge into the pool. If it helps, I've spent at least as much bandwidth demythologizing cryonics for Wiccans. On the other subjects listed above I range from outright disbelief (astrology) to scientific skepticism. In the 1970s the study of possible psychic ability was an area of serious psychological inquiry until a couple of widely publicized hoaxes caused the subdiscipline to be dropped entirely. Nowadays it is not only impermissable for a serious psychologist to try and do research in the area, but most won't even admit that it *used* to be a part of the discipline! I list it as a possibility that hasn't been given anywhere near enough properly designed study, and unfortunately probably won't be in the near future--therefore an honest scientist must simply remain agnostic on the subject. I hold out more hope for the development of artificial psionic abilities with the advancement of neurological knowledge and nanotechnology, which will render the whole question somewhat moot. > have maintained that people buy products and services > because they are emotionally appealing, but I suspect > that ultimately, choosing cryonics is a very rational > decision making process that is often made in spite of > strong emotional inclinations to the contrary. I would say that most people who choose cryonics do so because of a strong emotional inclination towards genuinely wanting to live forever. This is surprisingly rare--the number of people I've talked to who seem to genuinely feel that 80 years is enough time shocks the hell out of me. There's so much to do! And I really shouldn't be so shocked because the decision to become a cryonicist was a six-month emotional struggle for me. I, like many people, had in the process of accepting death as a neccessity become emotionally attached to it. It's one of the few things that most people believe can be absolutely counted on, and the decision to let go of it was both terrifying and exhilerating. Long life, Ruthanna Gordon Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14098