X-Message-Number: 14231
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 03:53:14 -0400
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #14223 - #14230
References: <>

> Ok, let's set up a test case. At time "A" you've got a collection of atoms
> which looks like Dave Pizer, plausibly claims to think it is Dave Pizer, and
> which succeeds in convincing Dave's friends that it is Dave Pizer.

<snipped because the first try got refused...sometimes more of the original 
message is needed Kevin :)>

> I submit to you that if there is no test which can distinguish between "A"
> and "B", then "A" IS "B", and to claim otherwise is basically a religious
> claim:

Wrong. Mere lack of a test proves nothing. Except perhaps our current lack of 

> "Well, sure, he looks the same and acts the same, but now he's
> souless!" After all, in exactly the same sense, we don't know that our
> selves aren't instantly extinguished on any occasion on which we lose
> consciousness for even an instant, to be replaced by new identities which
> only think they are the same person. Functional tests are all we've got,
> aside from religious doctrine.

Here's an experiment for you. We put you in the disintigration chamber and flip 
the switch. Something happens and instead of instant disintigration and copy 
generation you get to watch the creation of your copy. Oops! Cries a technician 
and comes over to you apologetically. I'm very sorry, the system glitched. We'll
get right to destroying YOU now. So, do YOU sit there and trust that the copy 
over there looking back at YOU already having divergent experiences from YOURS 
is actually YOU and will be YOU, so YOU take it like a man? I sure the

hell don't! It seems to me just as religous to have faith that because our atoms
turn over every so many years that this is the same or can justify the copy 
paradox we've been mulling over this last week or so. For me, no copy of me will
ever BE me, just a very close brother.

Some of our views are spacious
some are merely space--RUSH

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