X-Message-Number: 14264 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 11:54:09 -0400 From: Paul Wakfer <> Subject: Re: CryoNet #14257 - Ettinger on Wakfer References: <> > Message #14257 > From: > Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:20:05 EDT > Subject: Wakfer & Links > > As the old saw goes, if you don't like the diagnosis, you can always retouch > the X-rays. More generally, if you don't want to change bad habits, just > pretend they are virtues. Yes, it is certainly unfortunate that so many people in positions of power and leadership do just that. Perhaps those actions, unbelievable to so many honest and innocent souls, are how they got there? Similar actions will appear below in full clarity. > Paul Wakfer has been bad-mouthing virtually all and sundry again, One person's "bad-mouthing" is another person's open honesty. Please give examples rather than a general and undefendable ad hominem. > in public and semi-public, All one's actions should be able to withstand public scrutiny. I am never afraid to put my thoughts and actions into the public domain (except for those who might use force against me). It is an excellent way to sort out those who are in your philosophical world-view group from those who are not. > with vulgar language to boot. The purpose of all language is for communication. Any evaluation of the words used is strictly in the mind of the reader, and has no absoluteness in reality. Even extremes of language have their place for purposes of intensity or for shaking people out of their mindless complacency. > As usual, anywone who doesn't > agree with him is either an idiot or a villain, or both. If that were so, then you and I would have very similar character, but it is not. I have many friends with whom I am not in full agreement on all issues. The fundamental values of integrity, openness, objective truth seeking, and genuine regard for other's rational potential are another matter. No one without those can be my friend. > Naturally, his perennial tactlessness in his view is really a virtue, > a refusal to "kiss ass." I am always tactful and friendly until people exhibit irrational behavior such as arrogance, turf guarding, and elitism. Once that happens tact and friendliness is tantamount to deceit and no longer has any place in the discourse. The mistake that I have made before was to be easily goaded into striking back emotionally without sufficient thought and effectiveness. You will find out as time proceeds (or you may not. It will be your loss.) that I am now much stronger and will avoid that behavior. However, most certainly a refusal to "kiss ass" *is* a virtue. > Among other things, he has berated Alcor and CI for not providing members > with adequate exposure to the fund-raising appeals of his own organizations > or those he favors. No. I have berated the *leaders* of Alcor and CI for not consistently supporting the goals and purposes which they and their organization purport to have. Apart from the fact that their most influential members remain followers and irrationally loyal to their leaders, I have no quarrel with, or criticism of Alcor and CI as organizations. In all things I am an individualist. Since I do not even admit the existence of collective actions, I can hardly berate them. > Yet I might point out, among other things, that our web > site has a link to the INC site,as well as to Alcor's site (and all the other > cryonics-related sites), even though neither the INC nor the Alcor site links > to CI's. Bob, has your xray faded so much that you do not remember that my arrangement with the person supplying 1/2 the project funding forbade any public connection with cryonics? or have you purposefully retouched it? As for the Alcor site not linking to yours, I agree that is a reprehensible, head-in-the-sand, keep-it-from-the-flock kind of decision. > We don't acknowledge anyone else's right to equal time or access to our > publications, I have never said or thought that I have such a right. I have argued against some cryonics leader's misplaced idea that they *own* their followers and have the right, and the need to interpret everything for them, much as the pope interprets the world for his faithful flock. > but we have always made sure that our members and readers are > aware of the existence of other organizations and other viewpoints, and know > how to find them. Once the first seen xrays have been retouched? > We also publish our research findings, and will soon begin another new > series, probably in time for the next issue of THE IMMORTALIST, which will > also (per the decision of editor John Bull, with my concurrence) include > Wakfer's latest fund appeal, Forget retouching! Here you have simply clipped out the portion of the xray which you do not want to be seen. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Appeal Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 11:22:03 -0400 From: John Bull <> To: Paul Wakfer <> Paul, I hope to be able to put your appeal in the upcoming issue, (July-August). It should be mailed out by the end of August. Keep up the good work! JB -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Your appeal Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 19:33:06 -0400 From: John Bull <> To: Paul Wakfer <> Paul, I never thought I would get into such a hornet's nest by agreeing to run your appeal. I checked with Bob, he preferred I not run it and he will write something which will include information on how people can access your appeal. At the present time I still have a post in Cryonet Digest from Ben, urging contributions and giving the full address. JB -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Change Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 08:37:27 -0400 From: John Bull <> To: Paul Wakfer <> Paul, Bob has recommended I run your appeal, together with a piece he will write. JB -------- End of correspondence quoted with permission --------- > as well as my comments on related > matters--including some items not well known. > > Robert Ettinger > Cryonics Institute > Immortalist Society > http://www.cryonics.org Paul Wakfer Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14264