X-Message-Number: 14279
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:02:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ruthanna R Gordon <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #14113 - #14118

< wrote>

> Good luck on your Phd and book.  We look forward to your continued if 
> occasional participation and postings.

As demonstrated here.  I'm only just now catching up on the last 3 weeks
of cryonet...

<On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 Thomas Donaldson wrote>

> You've given a good and interesting summary of the current state of Wicca.
> Those who have written on the history of religion would say that Wicca
> is an invention of the 20th Century, with few resemblances to the older
> version --- but that's OK. After all, we're going through lots of changes,
> and have been through more, and it's quite unreal to suppose that a
> religion viable in the 10th Century AD will much  resemble one viable
> in the 20th.

I agree.  If I wanted a religion with doctrines that made sense hundreds
of years ago, I'd save myself some effort and stick with a mainstream
one.  Most people are aware that the connection between modern and ancient
Wicca is just an origin myth--the modern version draws its real roots in
Aleister Crowley and the feminist and environmental movements (and has of
course branched and changed much since even those).

> The one thing your summary lacked was some references to books etc where
> those interested could find out more. I ask this not because I'm personally
> interested in such books, but because others on Cryonet might be.

I think I may have posted something along these lines later, but it may
have been in a private follow-up.  I would recommend The Spiral Dance, by
Starhawk, as a good introduction and overview.  I would also recommend
When, Why, If, by Robin Wood, as a more intense discussion of Wiccan

> As for my own religious lenings, I was raised as an Episcopalian (one
> branch of Christianity) but have come to believe that religions are 
> irrelevant, not just for cryonicists but generally. We cannot really
> transfer responsibility for our actions to ANY other institution or
> "person"; we have to take responsibility ourselves, and act as WE think
> best. Not to do that is merely to fool oneself. Even if there is a God
> or Goddess who claims to be in charge of the Universe, we still must
> make our own decisions ... we just have a powerful being that makes
> various (false) claims about how he or she will happily decide "for us".

That just about exactly matches my feelings on ethics and
responsibility.  One of the reasons I am a Wiccan is that, while I do
believe in a Divine, I don't believe in handing off my personal
responsibility to It or someone who claims to speak for It.  I would
characterize my relationship with the Divine as less
authoritarian/subordinate and more familial.

> And I hope that you sign up (with or without your husband or lover)
> ASAP. At a minimum, get the insurance you'll need. The problem is that
> even if you don't DIE in a few years, you could well find out that you
> suffer from a disease which makes you uninsurable ... which will come
> close to putting an end to your ideas about cryonics. I say this as
> someone who suffered (and survived) a brain tumor, but took out lots
> of life insurance before I ever knew I would have that problem. Yes,
> I recovered, though it did cause damage to my thinking (mostly my
> physical coordination). There are lots of people aged in their 20's
> or 30's who find out they have conditions which make them hard or
> impossible to insure.

Hopefully within the next six months.  I've been talking about doing this
for six years now, and now that I have the financial wherewithal I need to
make it real.

Thanks all for your welcomes,
Ruthanna Gordon

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