X-Message-Number: 14381
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: where cryonicists invest
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:07:32 +0100

I have been working through a backlog of cryonet and came to this comment:

> Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 23:36:14 -0400
> From: Paul Wakfer <>
> ... Most cryonicists are not going to invest in any
> cryonics related company unless they are just as certain that it will be
> profitable as any other company on the stock market!  ...

Most if not all cryonics companies that have appeared throughout the history
of the movement have not been available on the stock market. BioTime spun
off Trans Time and can be bought, but it is a medical not a cryonics
company. As Mr Wakfer pointed out, 21CM is not a public company.

The advantage of investing on the *public* stock market that it is an
anonymous arm's length transaction, whereas investing in a private company
requires many legal restraints from the investor's side, one of which is
that large sums of money are needed. You can invest $1000 in a public
company and no one but your broker will ever know it is you and that you
could have invested much more and so on. It really pays to think small and
grow big - something you cannot do with private companies unless you are a
multi-millionaire and small to you is big to most other people. In fact the
law and that piece of common sense are in agreement - small private
companies have to by law (as far as I am aware) establish that their
investors can afford to lose their investments before taking their money.

The problems with public companies, as I expect Mr Wakfer has pointed out
before, is the enormous rake off the legal and regulatory professions get in
setting them up.

As far as the general public are concerned, yes they will not invest in any
company, cryonics or otherwise, unless they think that they can see an
opportunity the market as a whole hasn't taken into consideration.
Cryonicists are a special case, as they think that can see the future more
clearly than anyone else. That future is likely to be at variance with the
future the market sees, so yes there are large fortunes there to be taken
over the decades to come. Very roughly speaking $100 could  grow into $10M
in five decades given a sound general investment in technology. Not got five
decades? Then add as many noughts to the left hand side as you can and
subtract one decade for every nought that you add.

I say could because of course there are alternatives - nano could destroy
economics as we know it, but that is another story ...

Sincerely, John de Rivaz
my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, music, Inventors'
report, an autobio and various other projects:
http://www.autopsychoice.com - should you be able to chose autopsy?

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