X-Message-Number: 14443 From: Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:15:29 EDT Subject: Fermi etc. Thomas Donaldson remarks that the Fermi question (Where are all the ETs?) becomes worse on the hypothesis of an infinite past and an infinite space. I certainly agree that no plausible reason has been given for the apparent absence of advanced ETs on earth, given that they exist elsewhere. But I'm not sure the problem is exacerbated by a universe infinite in space and time. For one thing, there are infinities and infinities. Hoyle once proposed a steady-state model, now mostly discarded, with the universe constantly expanding because of continual creation of hydrogen atoms, but general features unchanging. There could also be asymptotic infinities, and various others. Consider motivation for colonization or exploration by advanced beings. If the universe is infinite in space and time, then it's been-there-done-that. And why bother to save inferior creatures, if the fraction you can save is finity/infinity = zero? But all this is getting way ahead of ourselves. Speculation can be fun, and can also be productive of useful ideas, be the original subject ever so esoteric--yet conclusions are far beyond us. The Big Bang envisages a "beginning" of time itself. What existed "before" time began? A meaningless (?) question; since "before" presupposes time before time--like saying the universe is bounded in space and then asking what is outside. If we live long enough, we will doubtless find some answers--and more questions. And have a lot of fun, and redress many wrongs and sorrows. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14443