X-Message-Number: 14451
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: if so, where are they?
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:41:42 +0100

Surely if the distance an alien intelligence has to travel to find us is
infinite, then it would take an infinite time to get here.

Also if it had to examine each star for planets, and then those with planets
for planets with intelligent life, then the time take to do that with an
infinite universe is also infinite.

Also, does anyone know what the (apparent) age of the universe is, the age
of this galaxy, and the age of the earth. Over what proportion of the age of
the galaxy has earth existed? Over what proportion of the apparent age of
the universe has the earth existed? If these ratios are relatively small,
then they may answer the question of intelligence.

Another point is the fact that if humanity had single mindedly created our
present technological society, instead of fighting inter tribal wars, then
how many thousands of years ago would we be at our present level?

Could human like life appear on worlds and never develop technology and
eventually die out with an asteroid impact, Yellow Stone Park type giant
volcano, plague, solar flare or something similar?

--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz
my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, music, Inventors'
report, an autobio and various other projects:
http://www.geocities.com/longevityrpt
http://www.autopsychoice.com - should you be able to chose autopsy?

----- Original Message ----- > Message #14436
> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 07:21:24 -0400
> From: Thomas Donaldson <>
> Subject: if so, where are they?
> An infinite past makes such other intelligences (millions of
> years in advance of us) seem even more likely. Even if we
> suppose that most intelligent species destroy themselves
> early in their history, such destruction would have to be
> unbelievably common if the past of the universe is infinite.
> Not only that, but the DISTANCE such intelligences migth
> come to get to our galaxy becomes far larger ... even if
> they take a relatively slow trip, trips between galaxies
> become just as easy as those between stars.

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