X-Message-Number: 14462 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:34:54 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: more on ETs, and a question Hi! Several "answers" to my proposal that a universe with an infinite past would cause problems for the existence of other intelligences seem to have forgotten the major premise of an infinite past. Yes, if most civilizations are about the same age as us, + or - 1 billion years, then this problem does not arise (though we still have the problem of explaining why they haven't come here). I recently wrote an article for ANALOG about extraterrestrial civilizations in which I pointed out that by independently evolving, the individuals and civilizations could easily have properties which made it hard for them to communicate with us at all. Like creatures that have a large and elaborate system for perceiving odors, but very little ability to see (if such creatures follow our design, it may well not work, but I said that they would NOT follow our design, which opens up lots of possibilities). I would say in general that we're probably alone within a large volume of space --- not because of the infinite past of the universe but simply because the Earth would otherwise have been colonized 100 million years ago. But the possibilities of other civilizations become markedly better if we assume that the universe had only a finite past... even though it might be relatively long in our normal terms (10 billion years or so). One other point: yes, the Universe is supposed to be expanding. However, if we suppose that it had an infinite past, then just noticing how many Galaxies are relatively close to us should tell us that with that infinite past either the expansion is an illusion, or new matter is created constantly in the space between galaxies... Incidentally, I too would like to know just what the present state of Alcor's preparations to vitrify rather than freeze, in particular the important factor of COST. Best wishes and long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14462