X-Message-Number: 14462
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:34:54 -0400
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: more on ETs, and a question

Hi!

Several "answers" to my proposal that a universe with an infinite past
would cause problems for the existence of other intelligences seem to
have forgotten the major premise of an infinite past. Yes, if most
civilizations are about the same age as us, + or - 1 billion years,
then this problem does not arise (though we still have the problem
of explaining why they haven't come here).

I recently wrote an article for ANALOG about extraterrestrial
civilizations in which I pointed out that by independently evolving,
the individuals and civilizations could easily have properties which
made it hard for them to communicate with us at all. Like creatures
that have a large and elaborate system for perceiving odors, but
very little ability to see (if such creatures follow our design, it
may well not work, but I said that they would NOT follow our design,
which opens up lots of possibilities).

I would say in general that we're probably alone within a large
volume of space --- not because of the infinite past of the universe
but simply because the Earth would otherwise have been colonized 
100 million years ago. But the possibilities of other civilizations
become markedly better if we assume that the universe had only a 
finite past... even though it might be relatively long in our
normal terms (10 billion years or so).

One other point: yes, the Universe is supposed to be expanding. 
However, if we suppose that it had an infinite past, then just 
noticing how many Galaxies are relatively close to us should tell
us that with that infinite past either the expansion is an illusion,
or new matter is created constantly in the space between galaxies...

Incidentally, I too would like to know just what the present state
of Alcor's preparations to vitrify rather than freeze, in particular
the important factor of COST.

			Best wishes and long long life to all,

				Thomas Donaldson

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