X-Message-Number: 14529 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: Re:The Purpose of this List Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:22:02 +0100 ---- Original Message ----- > Doug Baldwin <> wrote: > > > RE: #14514: A Community of Cryonicists? [Paul Wakfer] <> > > > > >all), then in order to optimise my use of time, I must perforce > > >unsubscribe to this list which has become an inward looking club rather > > >than the speciality list which its name implies. >> > > HHH (HOORAY HOORAY HOORAY) However much many of us may agree on a private level, I feel that someone interested in cryonics is too important to dismiss this lightly. Our numbers are too small to practise intolerance. Mr Wakfer may have been wrong in his approach, but he did try to do something and if he is drummed out then it could discourage others from trying something else. Who knows, maybe the next person who rocks the boat will come up with something that none of us have thought of before and which is really useful. > Message #14526 > Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 10:24:31 -0400 > From: Paul Wakfer <> > Subject: The Purpose of this List (del) > been no apparent benefit for my research fund-raising efforts from the > many hours which I spent posting to CryoNet and then defending my (del) This is the nub of the matter. As I understand it, the Prometheus Project and later projects were an independent structure that *may* benefit the cryonics community as presently constituted. Alternatively it could have produced a different technology which would have given rise to new cryonics organisations which would have taken over the old ones or simply taken their members (on the basis that it was proven to be superior). Also it has been described by cryonics leaders as speculative and it has been suggested that the funding is better used elsewhere. That is to say it could have produced no useful result at all. As many estate residues of people signed up for cryonics pass to cryonics organisations, anything any signed up member spends is ultimately going to reduce that residue that passes to his cryonics organisation. Certainly large chunks of money as were proposed will make a substantial difference if otherwise they were invested in technology and stayed there for decades before being passed to a cryonics organisation. If the payments to PP were removed from a mutual fund (or similar) in a manner that attracted capital taxation, then this effect would have been amplified even further. Maybe it would be better for those interested in the Prometheus Project to go one to other futurist lists or whatever and start from scratch with the concept of developing a provable preservation protocol before signing people up for it. Don't use the words "cryo" anything in describing it. Such a concept is totally different from the basic premise of cryonics, which is to rely on *future* technology to do the *revival*. In the proposed scenario, one is still relying on future technology to do the curing and ageing reversal, but *not for the revival*. (Obviously a relatively crude revival technology would improve with time, though.) If this order of events is possible (which I and probably most people reading this list think it isn't, but we could be wrong) then people could give you their money for you to spend on this project. Something that came to mind: Maybe an improved approach would be instead of asking people to give *you* the money ask for someone else to come forward to collect the money for your idea. That perhaps may deflect some of the name calling that follows every "beggar". (You are only a fund raiser if you work for a big established charity.) I hope that these comments have been of help, I have tried to say what I think is logical and sensible, but apologies in advance if they are not good politics :-) -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, music, Inventors' report, an autobio and various other projects: http://www.geocities.com/longevityrpt http://www.autopsychoice.com - should you be able to chose autopsy? Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14529