X-Message-Number: 1458 Date: 16 Dec 92 22:28:26 EST From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: Re: cryonics: #1450 - #1455 Some comments, again in inverse order: To David Stodolsky: Yes, the Vatican is a state. But it has a very small population while the majority of Roman Catholics live very far from it. Although RC is very influential politically in a variety of places, there is no place but in the Vatican where it actually has any state power (as shown by the wave of conversions to Protestantism in many Latin American countries, for instance). My problem with states is that because the set the law, they may have (except for the democratic ones, and there are problems even there!) power to do whatever they wish, with no or little feedback. Re Steve Harris's comment: I was most interested by the Gompertz curve papers because, first, they proved what people have guessed to be true for years (ie. proved it statistically) and second, they strongly suggest to me (at least) that there are only a small number of changes which cut down the repair ability of aging people to the low level we see at age 90. (There are other suggestions to this effect also, but these experiments add one more the the list). Apparently there is to be another, larger, trial of HGH in human subjects: despite the fact that its authors are telling all and sundry that they really don't want immortality, they're just trying to make people live in good health until age 85 etc etc, there is a suggestion (from results like these on the Gompertz curve) that HGH may do much more than that. Re Scott Herman's comments: I think he should review what Metzgar had to say. And as I said to him before, if all the nonpoliticians leave Alcor, it will consist only of politicians. It's one thing to stop your volunteer activity and another to resign outright. I myself became active shortly after I finished grad school ... not because I thought that any existing organization (it was the time of CSC, for instance) would save me, but because it seeped into my highly nonpolitical skull that if I didn't do something personally about my own suspension I would not be suspended decades later ... And I DO mean decades. Even if Alcor has 342 members, that's a drop in the ocean. It can't even support minor amounts of scientific research, not to mention the millions of dollars and man-hours likely to be needed to make suspension even theoretically secure... and millions of dollars and man-hours would still be needed to establish that as actually secure. Best Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=1458