X-Message-Number: 14637 References: <> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 13:06:49 +0200 From: David Stodolsky <> Subject: Re: Overpopulation . . >Message #14631 >Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 00:14:01 +0100 >From: Phil Rhoades <> >Subject: Overpopulation . . > >>Message #14623 >>References: <> >>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:14:30 +0200 >>From: David Stodolsky <> >>Subject: Re: Will cryonauts be exploited in some way? > >David had some things to say about exploring the galaxy etc that I >generally agree with but I couldn't let this pass: > >>Current trends indicate a decrease in overall population at a time >>that precedes the breakout to space and need for more people. The >>Establishment continues to proclaim "overpopulation" as a source of >>problems, when it is their own corruption which causes poverty, etc. >>Now, why isn't this surprising? Within the last few years it has >>begun to dawn on the "aid" community that overpopulation is not the >>central problem, but this has not "trickled down" to the general >>public, who suffered years of indoctrination about overpopulation, >>resource shortages, etc. > >I'm not sure what David means by "corruption" but it is certainly true that By corruption, I mean both the explicit taking/giving of cash payments, and an overall economic system that sets the stage for this activity and which ignores human resources as fundamental. Production requires people, technology, and resources. Current economic thinking is weak in taking into account the first (basically this is because the model of the person is not realistic). When economic thinking is applied full out in an advanced country, as under Thatcher, half the population is plunged into poverty. When it is likewise applied in an underdeveloped country you can get massive starvation, natural resource depletion, riots, etc. >vast resources are getting wasted on war and armaments etc but there is no >doubt (in my mind at least) that overpopulation has done great damage to Population is predicted to rise to 12 billion and then stabilize or gradually decrease. Carrying capacity of the Earth using the technology of 30 years ago is 60 billion. >natural resources and many species and is causing a catastrophic decrease >in genetic diversity - make no mistake, humans (in our current form) cannot Poor political leadership can result in population pressure locally, however, when I asked a demographer if he knew of any case where mass starvation was not avoidable, he could not recall a single instance. >survive without an earth that has substantial biodiversity: overpopulation >+ wasted resources on technologies of destruction IS a survival issue. If >there is a global environmental catastrophe of one sort or another in the >next few decades you can forget about getting revived from cryostasis . . We could very well have an environmental catastrophe driven by economic forces running out of control. But it is more likely that cryostasis will be disrupted by social disorder, as people refuse to accept being starved to death, etc., in a world of plenty. The "IMF riots" following in the wake of the Structural Adjustment Program give an example of this. dss -------- From: (Rick Mather: Praxa Sydney) Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny Subject: Communists in England Keywords: funny Message-ID: <> Date: 9 Feb 90 00:30:12 GMT During his recent visit to the UK Mikhail Gorbachev was taken on a tour of a typical British factory by the Iron Lady, Margaret Thatcher. The tour started at 9.00am and the factory was just starting to fill with employees... GORBY: "What these people do?" MAGGIE: "Oh, they are just starting work?" GORBY: "AAAARRggghhh! In Russia start at 5.00am" So, they walk around for a while, viewing some machinery and at 10.30 a hooter sounds and the factory workers leave. G: "Where they go?" M: "Oh, it is morning tea time. They have a break for 20 minutes." G: "AAAArrrggghhhh! In Russia no morning tea." At 12.00 noon the two VIP's are viewing plans for a new factory and a hooter sounds and the factory workers leave, again. G: "Where they go now?" M: "Oh, it is lunch time. They take a break for an hour." G: "AAAArrrggghhhh! One hour. In Russia is ten minutes lunch." At precisely 2.15pm a hooter sounds, and again the workers leave the factory. G: "AAAArrrggghhhh! Another break, nyet?" M: "Yes, another break. They get 20 minutes afternoon smoke" At 4.30pm another hootoer sounds and the factory grinds to a halt. G: "AAAArrrggghhhh! Another break? M: "No, they've finished for the day." G: "In Russia start at 5.00am, no breaks, ten minutes lunch, no breaks, work till 7.00pm at night. Right through, no breaks. Why you not make them work harder?" M: "Oh, we can't do that!" G: "Why you can't make them work harder?" M: "Because they're all communists." -- -------- -- David S. Stodolsky, PhD PGP: 0x35490763 Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14637