X-Message-Number: 14717 From: Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:37:13 EDT Subject: communicating & philosophy Thomas Donaldson was kind enough to indicate he found some interest in my recent post about standing waves and the self circuit. Yet what I said was essentially the same thing I have said many times before over many years--the only difference this time being a touch of extra detail. Only a touch, for the benefit of those who had forgotten what a standing wave is. Goes to show you--you have to be VERY careful in your assumptions about what you are communicating, and you should usually assume that even the smartest and best informed reader won't understand you unless you are detailed and specific. Lee Corbin hit the nail on the head in saying that the core of philosophy is a prescription for action. That is why almost all philosophers, ancient and modern--despite important contributions in specialized categories--have been close to total failures in the main task, providing rigorously derived guidelines for living. This is the modest aim of my book in progress, YOUNIVERSE. But Lee and his fellow strong AI people keep missing the point in their attempts to justify duplicates-as-self. The question is not how you feel or someone else feels, but how you SHOULD feel, based on logic which in turn is based on biological essentials. There are also many people--perhaps a majority--who feel that "values" or appropriate goals cannot be rigorously derived or proven correct, but in the end are arbitrary. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion." I don't believe that. In many trivial or borderline cases, such as preferences in flavors of ice cream, it would be silly to waste effort on a scientific analysis of what you "ought" to like, but it could be done. On many significant questions, such as immediate self interest vs. altruism in various situations, it not only can be done but must be done, unless you are willing to be a feather in the breeze or the pawn of your conditioning. Lee says correctly that one's attitudes, based on habit or instinct, can be "wrong"--but he fails to identify the criterion or criteria of "right." In particular, he justifies duplicate-as-self by assuming as self-evident that location doesn't matter, and continuity doesn't matter, and two or more instantiations of a thing or a person "ought" to be regarded as the "same"--and that any one of the person-instantiations should regard all the others as equally valuable. WHY? He doesn't prove his case--he just assumes his conclusion as an implicit premise. My own view is far from final or complete, because there is too much we still don't know about physics and biology. But a reasonable starting point is that there is a person in the brain--not a homunculus, but a "self circuit" as previously suggested--and that its basic biological imperative is to feel good. For an intelligent organism, that means to seek to maximize personal satisfaction over future time. None of this is new in principle, and elements of it can be found in the schools of the hedonists, epicureans, and utilitarians. Although all of those seemed to fail and fell out of favor, they had some things right; they just lacked the modern tools (physical and mathematical) required for progress and implementation. Needless to say, there are countless subtleties, complications, and apparent contradictions, and a discussion at book length can only clarify a few of the questions and offer partial answers to a few more. But we can make dramatic improvements over all previous philosophies of life. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14717