X-Message-Number: 14839 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 03:29:18 -0800 (PST) From: "D. den Otter" <> Subject: Cryonics & Europe (Was: Opinions in general about cryonics growth) david pizer <> wrote: >>I think foreign members would do themselves a service to form their own cryonics companys close to home. Let me repeat that. If you live out of the U.S., or Canada, and you really want to try to have a good suspension, you probably will do much better to form a company in your own country.<< I quite agree. It's about damn time that we got ourselves a proper cryonics organization, *with* full LN2 storage capabilities. Contrary to popular belief, we have more than enough potential members to do it. Sometimes you hear people say "well, we can start thinking about our own setup once we have a thousand or so prospective members". This, of course, is utter nonsense; there are hardly a thousand cryonicists in the whole *world*. All the US organizations had to start out with very limited funds and just a (relative) handful of members as well. If they could do it, then why not we? Because Europeans are a bunch of hopeless incompetents? Well, maybe we are...but we should give it a try nonetheless; there's not much to lose, and a lot (potential immortality etc.) to gain. Interested parties can join the European cryonics mailing list via the link below. http://www.egroups.com/group/cryonics-euro As for funding the new cryonics organization: if you want to keep the pricing within acceptable limits, perhaps even engage in some "charity freezing", *and* have a strong, viable organization, you MUST have one or several outside (not cryo-related) sources of income. Membership fees, life insurance and the odd donation just won't do the trick, period. With all the computer skills etc. that we have in the cryonics/transhuman community, we should be able to create a good source of income trough ("legal") MLM programs (for a good example, see: http://www.bigbooster.com This site earns its owners thousands of dollars each month). Combine this with conventional investment (trust) funds, and you could become more or less financially independent, i.e. no longer need steady membership growth or donations to survive. Since cryonics is literally a matter of life and death, one needs to be as pragmatic as possible, and keep an open mind when it comes to "offbeat" financial opportunities, IMHO. Another way to stay in business is by keeping operating costs to a minimum. This can be done by means of (advanced) automation, for people are usually more expensive than machines, certainly in the long run. The latter are often more reliable as well, which is an added bonus. At the very least, the LN2 storage should be a fully insulated and "closed" system, which is only opened for patient insertion/removal. This too could be almost fully automated etc., but these matters are somewhat beyond the scope of this post. The bottom line is that Europeans have the *means* to create their own self-sufficient organization, but still need a "triumph of the will". The US cryonics orgs are not the real problem; we are our own worst enemy. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14839