X-Message-Number: 14872 From: Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:43:49 EST Subject: Re: CryoNet #14858 - #14868 --part1_5d.2f96f5c.2739c385_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Grigg writes: > > Frankly, I'm still amazed that there aren't already > millions, or at least thousands, of cryonicists in the > world. Or at least in the Western countries, anyway; > 1-5 members might be understandable for Sierra Leone > or something, but not for a big industrialized country > like Germany. Even the "hundreds" of cryonicists in > the US is utterly pathetic if you think about it. This > Ah, I think its only a mystery to cryonicists, John. Think about it from the "other side". There are a multitude of reasons why people do not join. First of all there is going to be the guilt of surviving while those around them perish and die. Their loved ones, family members and friends who will NOT become immortalists are a tremendous emotional burden. Many people are afraid to pay that emotional price. If they become cryonocists, they will either have to be silently selfish, or go around evangelizing all their loved ones to join as well- or live with their loved one's death, guilty that they didn't do- say- or pay- enough to save them. Frankly, it ain't gonna be a pleasant choice to make. Second, people will tend to view cryonic suspension as a termination of their lives- yes, they do. They have to DIE to become cryonically suspended. Any revival and the life they experience proceeding from that revival will actually be an "afterlife" of sorts. So they're going to still have to die to become immortal- to go through death's door, so to speak- from their limited point of view, that experience will undoubtedly be viewed as emotionally traumatic, even if its actually as simple as drifting off to sleep. Death, dying, all the associated cultural impact, carries with it a tremendous baggage of cultural consequence and guilt and trauma. Third, most people aren't willing to plan for their future. That's why there's social security, and 401k programs (you have to practically beat people up to get them to sign up for these!), and most people begrudge planning for retirement and funerals and wills or even paying off their credit cards every month. How then to convince someone that can't even manage their present life to plan for their next? Fourth, there's that old time religion- yes, its a crock. I mean, IMHO, its all made up. People use religion to get through life and avoid thinking about that inevitable slide into oblivion that was previously unescapable. Now, suddenly, there's a chance to keep on living. In fact, no one can figure out that it won't work. And the more they try to prove that cryonics won't work, the more it seems that it WILL work. But that means we have to reject an ENTIRE set of societal precepts and conventions- to become outcasts in the eyes of the world. Is it any wonder that cryonocists- immortals, if you will, are a tad ornery and sometimes perceived as anti-social? I don't think that's 100% true, but immortals aren't the sort to just sort of fall in line under societal pressure. But those who do fall in line, well its not an easy choice to alienate from their support groups. And fifth, its easy to do nothing, or procrastinate. Regular society (if you'll allow me that definition) gets along by denying death as much as possible- not even thinking about it. When we go to a funeral we even put on special clothes- go into another state of mind if you will, do our grieving, and then take off those funeral clothes and go back into the world of daily denying death may be at the door any moment... so we can function. So to be a cryonocist, you have to live in the world of truth 100% of the time, denying yourself the warm comfort of fuzzy logic and emotional platitude. Okay, well, I'd be more than willing to hear what anyone has to say on these ideas, positive or negative. It might help with learning to presuade people to sign up. I do think that as the idea becomes more accepted and science improves, people will start to move towards cryonics. But right now, the movement is just that first falling pebble that starts the avalanche. Mike Donahue --part1_5d.2f96f5c.2739c385_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14872