X-Message-Number: 14967
From: 
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:03:40 EST
Subject: Chamberlain/Antonik/BT/INC

Kitty Antonik (#14955) notes, first, that in one of my recent posts I 
mentioned Fred Chamberlain's web reprint of his upcoming CRYONICS article on 
BioTransport's expected offering of vitrification. I said the INC report of 
"53% viability" of rat brain slices was by an unreported criterion--meaning 
unreported in FRED'S article. Perhaps I should have said that it had been 
reported elsewhere, and I knew what it was--but, for one thing, we have been 
requested not to mention certain people and institutions on Cryonet, because 
they don't want contamination by association with cryonics.

In any event, my point remains valid--that only a single criterion of 
"viability" was used, as far as I know--the K/Na ratio, which relates to 
cells and not organs or organisms or neural nets. "Viability" in the global 
sense demands much, much more. CI research plans (partly implemented at this 
stage) include microscopy, metabolic pathways, and electrophysiology. 

Kitty also mentioned another post, which expressed enthusiasm for Fred's 
vitrification article, and she passed on Paul Wakfer's warnings that such 
enthusiasm is going too far, pointing out that ice damage can also be avoided 
completely by pickling in alcohol--but with other kinds of damage that may 
well be more important. That, of course, is correct. 

I am not implying that vitrification with the BT procedures (whatever they 
are) will produce damage comparable to pickling in alcohol,  nor am I saying 
that progress has not been made. I am just reiterating that the actual 
documented results so far do not come close to justifying extravagant claims 
or Hallelujah expectations. "Viability" of 53%, by several different 
metabolic criteria, has been matched or exceeded long ago with "outmoded" 
cryoprotectants; see our web site for details. 

(And to date, as far as I know, nobody else anywhere has matched or exceeded 
Dr. Pichugin's success, about three years ago, in showing coordinated 
bioelectric activity in networks of neurons in rabbit brain pieces that had 
been perfused with glycerol, frozen and stored in liquid nitrogen, and then 
thawed.) 

Robert Ettinger
Cryonics Institute
Immortalist Society
http://www.cryonics.org

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