X-Message-Number: 15096
From: "john grigg" <>
Subject: a cryonics conversation with my parents
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 03:28:06 

Hello everyone,

I found the latest issue of cryonet very exciting.  The study Robert 
Ettinger commissioned is certainly fascinating.  I had always thought of the 
ramped technique as clearly superior.  I look forward to the results of the 
future studies.

Regarding "blowing up religious buildings and landmarks" I can only say that 
such talk is very sad.  I remember as a young Mormon missionary in Louisiana 
being told the quote by Brigham Young, "you can only kick this church 
upstairs!"  The fierce persecution of the Mormon church in the nineteenth 
century only over the longterm only strengthened it.

As for me as a young guy knocking on doors; I can say that the heated 
reaction of bible belt people actually energized us to further vigorous 
missionary work.  Having guns drawn on us or voices raised in hateful 
derision did not cause us to want to go home.  I was young and truly 
believed God would protect me as I tracted through some of the worst 
neighborhoods in New Orleans.  The local street thugs would watch us and 
smile wickedly not being sure whether to be friendly or hurt us.  I was 

I had friends who served missions in western Europe.  They encountered what 
really saps the spirit out of missionaries; total disinterest!  With person 
after person politely ignoring them they sometimes fell prey to homesickness 
and apathy.  The "oldschool" europeans who would have burned them to the 
stake are gone(happily!) but just a little of that spirit might have 
invigorated the missionaries. lol

A friend was sent to France.  His four years of French in highschool had 
paid off! lol  There was not a more solid young mormon guy around and his 
mission president sent him to tract near the beaches of the French riviera.  
A female voice behind him asked for the time and as he turned around to 
reply a shock hit him.  This beautiful young woman was not wearing a stitch 
of clothing.  My friend quickly turned around again and gave her the time.  
She giggled as she walked away.  I'm sure she tells the story too.

Rudi Hoffman's post was excellent and very informative.  I appreciate all 
the work he does on our behalf to make cryonics a real possibility for 
people.  Considering all the insurance Rudi has for his cryonics savings 
account, I expect him to be up there with Bill Gates after he comes out of 
suspension!  He has sure been patient with me and I hope to show him it was 
worth it.

Now, regarding my conversation with my stepfather Walter and my mother.  I 
was visiting my folks when my mother mentioned that I wanted to get life 
insurance for cryonics.  An idea which she considers alright since she knows 
of my frustrations with my present world.

My stepfather Walter is originally from India.  Upon highschool graduation 
he enlisted in the Indian merchant marine and worked his way up to be a 
senior ship's engineer.  After his retirement and the death of his first 
wife he came to the U.S. for a change of pace.  My mother has been married 
to him for eight years now.  He is a good man with old-fashioned values and 
has a fairly good grasp of the english language.

He really got on my case about cryonics.  He was convinced(with no  
investigating done) cryonics leadership were a bunch of conmen out to get 
rich off me!  I found the thought amusing and explained that they are not 
enriching themselves but instead making sacrifices for it.

Then Walter heatedly asked me if cryonics had been proven by having a person 
brought back.  I explained the answer was no.  He had a field day with that 
one!  I told him cryonicists made it very clear that this was all a big 
gamble at best.  But the hope was that with nanotech(took time explaining 
about it!) and steadily improving suspension techniques we all had a good 
chance of being brought back.

Next he brought up how it was against nature and God to bring back the dead. 
  I said how to a medeival man a paramedic using paddles would be defying 
God.  I realize that is somewhat simplistic.  I went on to say that by our 
standard of science a cryonics patient is dead, but by the standards of 
science a century from now they will only be "asleep."

Then I went on to explain about how damage is done in freezing but how all 
the information is still there to be reassembled.  And how nanobots over 
time could molecule by molecule reassemble the body based on the pattern 

I told him that to bring back the "dead" who were burned to ash or eaten by 
sharks would take Godlike power beyond nanotech.  But that cryonics was well 
within the realm of very human science though the nanotech was not here yet.

By the end of the conversation he was still wary of it but not as he had 
been before.  He wanted documented proof about the claims of cryonics 
leaders regarding the financing and finances of it all.  I showed him a copy 
of Cryonics magazine and said I did not worry about such things.  He said I 
had better intensely study this whole subject a thousand times over before I 
commit to it.  My mother laughed outloud and said she knew I had!

But then my mother who is generally positive about cryonics shared a concern 
with me.  She believes that great earthquakes and social disurbances are 
going to come over the next several decades.  This is due to her religious 
beliefs(which I often agree with as a theist) but also from a bunch of "new 
age" books she loves to read.

I replied that cryonicists realized there were no guarantees.  A great 
geological or sociological disaster might destroy the frozen bodies at the 
cryonics facilities.  These buildings are well-built and have security in 
place, but there are no absolute guarantees in life.

Mom then went on to tell me that according to a book she had just read  that 
we were now living in a golden age but did not realize it.  things would get 
much tougher in the next two centuries for humanity.  The author learned 
this by putting people into hypnotic states and getting in touch with their 
"future selves." lol!!

I explained how most likely this was a case of their subconscious tapping 
into the imagination and simply making the stuff up when prompted by the 
hypnotist.  This has been discovered to occur in some trials where people 
are hypnotised to remember things which supposedly have been blocked out.  
my mother conceded that might be the case.

It felt good to know I could at least to some extent defend and explain my 
views on cryonics.  I enjoyed having the chance to discuss it also with my 

Sadly, my brother Mike(age 25) thinks cryonics is bizarre and has no 
interest.  But, perhaps oneday he will change his mind.  He is an avid 
computer user who would feel at home at a Rainbow gathering.

I plan on attending the World Future Society meeting held here in Anchorage 
once a month.  I saw a flyer and called up the president.  He is a very 
friendly older gentleman who welcomed me to visit.  Only about a six or 
seven people generally attend meetings which is very sad.  There are about 
thirty names on the membership rolls.  Anchorage has over two-hundred 
thousand people in it so attendance should be so much better!  They have 
never put up flyers on college campuses.  I will change that...

Anyway, I have enjoyed sharing my recent experiences with the list members.  
I am just trying to do my own small part with my loved ones.  I hope 
everyone has a nice holiday season and new year.



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