X-Message-Number: 15111
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
Subject: Re: destrying symbols of coercion
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:26:25 -0000

Dani Kollin writes:

> The movement to identify God with nature is simply not accepted by most if
> not all Ethical Monotheists.

Do Ethical Monotheists believe what's in "The Bible"? There it says
something to the effect that God created the whole of everything **and saw
that it was good** (presumably this means what he made turned out the way he
wanted it to be). Now of course there are arguments about doing it in seven
days or the whole universe being made of water for a while etc etc, but this
underlying concept is surely beyond argument as a basic tenet of monotheism?

Or is "ethical monotheism" some offshoot of what most people who profess to
worship a single god believe?

As far as people who think it is worthwhile to practice cryopreservation are
concerned, it seems to me that there could be survivalist arguments for what
may pass as "ethical behaviour" by others. I suspect that if you really want
to live indefinitely you do have to behave in an ethical manner (whatever
that may really mean) to maximise your lifespan. *Only* if you are pushed
into a corner does it become worthwhile going beyond this. For example, a
Christian who is about to be killed by someone else and who has the
opportunity to kill first may still consider it unethical to do so. A
survivalist would not hesitate to kill in order to survive, if killing is
his only option. If you killed in order to get someone else's money (or wife
or ox) then however well laid your plan for not getting caught, with a
potentially infinite lifespan ahead of you the chances of someone finding a
flaw in your plan becomes finite. Even if there is no death penalty the
negative effect this is likely to have on your life is most likely to
outweigh however many  years of benefit you may get from your ill gotten

I suspect that the concept of indefinite lifespan also produces a strong
need to behave with respect for other people, ie cryonics carries an ethics
package similar to religions, but not exactly the same. By eliminating
ageing, disease and death, man will elevate himself beyond the animal chain
of evolutionary struggle and become something different.


The concept of "continuous creation" is something I heard from a Church of
England priest years ago at a funeral address: it does make more sense to me
than the concept of a "big bang" creation with all initial conditions set,
especially if you are struggling to link the words "benevolent" or "ethical"
with "god".

Sincerely, John de Rivaz
my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, music, Inventors'
report, an autobio and various other projects:
http://www.autopsychoice.com - should you be able to chose autopsy?

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